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Why CUDA translation wont unlock AMD

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Re: Why CUDA translation wont unlock AMD

#71
post #70
post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For most devs using GLSL instead of C++20, or Python GPU JIT, is a downgrade in developer experience.

For Python: PyTorch has Vulkan support according to https://docs.pytorch.org/executorch/stable/backends/vulkan/v... - wonder how performance is there.

CUDA is not only for AI.

Re: Why CUDA translation wont unlock AMD

#72

[flagged]

No. This is far beyond the capabilities of current AI, and will remain so for the foreseeable future. You could let your model of choice churn on this for months, and you will not get anywhere. It will be able to reach a somewhat working solution quickly, but it will soon reach a point where for every issue it fixes, it introduces one or more issues or regressions. LLMs are simply not capable of scaffolding complexit…

I don't think it really is, especially not if it's turned into a system, with multiple prompts, verification, etc.

Humans have problems with IMO problems, and this kind of kernel translation is a problem which is easier to humans, where there's more probably actually more data and a problem where the system can get feedback by simply running it and measuring memory use, runtime etc.

It'd be a system and no one has developed it, but I think it can be done with present LLMs as a core mechanism. They just need to be trained with RL on this specific problem.

Anyone with a good LLM, from Google to Mistral could probably do this, but it'd be a project.

Re: Why CUDA translation wont unlock AMD

#73
post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, your strategy for solving this is: Convert it to another harder problem (AGI). Now it is somebody else (AI researcher)'s problem. This is outsourcing the task to AI researchers.

They keep promising that this kind of capability is right around the corner & they keep showing how awesome they are at passing math exams so why is this a more difficult problem than solving problems in abstract algebra & scheme theory on humanity's last exam or whatever is the latest & greatest benchmark for mathematical capabilities?

They all have to make promises and have to dream big to keep the AI bubble from popping.

Re: Why CUDA translation wont unlock AMD

#75

A bit of background. This is directed towards Spectral Compute (Michael) and https://scale-lang.com/ . I know both of these guys personally and consider them both good friends, so you have to understand a bit of the background in order to really dive into this. My take on it is fairly well summed up at the bottom of Elio's post. In essence, Elio is taking the view of "we would never use scale-lang for llms because we…

Just to clarify: this post was not written against Spectral Compute. Their recent investment news was the trigger for us to finally write it yes, but the idea has been on our minds for a long time.

We actually think solutions like theirs are good for the ecosystem, they make it easier for people to at least try AMD without throwing away their CUDA code.

Our point is simply this: if you want top-end performance (big LLMs, specific floating point support, serious throughput/latency), translation alone is not enough. At that point you have to focus on hardware-specific tuning: CDNA kernel shapes, MFMA GEMMs, ROCm-specific attention/TP, KV-cache, etc.

That’s the layer we work on: we don’t replace people’s engines, we just push the AMD hardware as hard as it can go.

Re: Why CUDA translation wont unlock AMD

#76

Actual article title says "won't"; wont is a word meaning habit or proclivity.

In situations like this, I try to focus on whether the other person understood what was being communicated rather than splitting hairs. In this case, I don't think anyone would be confused.

Probably best to just fix the spelling.

Re: Why CUDA translation wont unlock AMD

#77
post #9

Let’s just say what it is: devs are too constrained to jump ship right now. It’s a massive land grab and you are not going to spend time tinkering with CUDA alternatives when even a six-month delay can basically kill your company/organization. Google and Apple are two companies with enough resources to do it. Google isn’t because they’re keeping it proprietary to their cloud. Apple still have their heads stuck in san…

Google has their own TPUs so they don’t have any vendor lock-in issues at all. OpenAI OTOH is big enough that the vendor lock-in is actually hurting them, and them making that massive deal with AMD may finally push the needle for AMD and improve things in the ecosystem to make AMD a smooth experience.

Having your own ASIC comes with a huge sunk cost. One gets advantages from that, but it's still a lock, just a lock of a different color. But with Google money and manpower, management can probably pursue both paths in parallel and not care.

Re: Why CUDA translation wont unlock AMD

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In situations like this, I try to focus on whether the other person understood what was being communicated rather than splitting hairs. In this case, I don't think anyone would be confused.

Probably best to just fix the spelling.

That's what you get when you don't use AI to write an article :p
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