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Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

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Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#71

Post by munificent »

bluedino wrote: post #16
stickfigure wrote: post #11

Can we just bring back the Brat? A compact 4wd pickup truck with a pair of jump seats in the bed. Pickup trucks are great, but they're only available in "behemoth" size in the US.

> Pickup trucks are great, but they're only available in "behemoth" size in the US. Not all trucks are 1/4 or 1/2 ton in the USA. There's things like the Honda Ridgeline, Hyundai Santa Cruze, and the Ford Maverick Subaru had the Baja for a little white but they only sold a couple thousand per year.

Agreed, they aren't all huge, but they are all pretty big and the few that aren't huge sacrifice a lot of bed size.

I'm going through this now because I'm looking at upgrading from my ancient 2002 Tacoma Xtracab. Here's compared to 2025 models:

    Vehicle                       Length    Bed
    ----------------------------  --------  -----
    2002 Toyota Tacoma (Xtracab)  202.9"    74.5"
    2002 Toyota Tacoma (2Dr)      184.4"    74.5"

    2025 Maverick                 199.8"    54.4"
    2025 Honda Ridgeline          210.2"    64.0"
    2025 Hyundai Santa Cruz       195.7"    52.1"
    2025 Toyota Tacoma Xtracab    213.0"    73.5"
My Tacoma wasn't even the shortest you could buy back then and it's still shorter than half of the "small" trucks you can buy today. And unlike those, my truck has a full 6' bed. A Maverick is shorter than mine, but the bed is also nearly two feet shorter. I honestly don't see the point of a bed that's less than five feet long. At that point, it's just an SUV with a trunk that isn't weather-sealed.

Now, granted, it's not like you get nothing in return. These new vehicles (except the new Tacoma Xtracab) all have four doors and full-sized back seats. I can fit a kid in my jump seats but anyone older than that has a bad time. I'm sure they're safer for everyone in the truck too.

But if you really do want to prioritize bed size and still want a short vehicle, that option is just no longer well supported. I accept that my use case is probably a narrow one:

* Live in a dense city with a lot of parallel parking so don't want a long vehicle.

* Kayak fish a lot so want a long bed I can load a kayak in.

* Can get away with a two-seater because we can use my wife's car when there are passengers.

But it's definitely not as well served as it used to be. I'm probably going to end up with a short-bed Tacoma and rely on a bed extender to keep the kayak safe.

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#72

Post by kjkjadksj »

yabones wrote: post #27

When cost and reliability is no concern, you can do truly crazy things... > 2.0-liter boxer engine ... 670 horsepower and 680 lb-ft of torque Those are V10 numbers coming from something the size you'd find in an econo-box. Obviously unlike your Camry this thing is not going to do 300,000 KMs over its lifetime, and will be rebuilt frequently. This is the extreme end of the engineering tradeoff, and it's interesting to…

You should look into what they were building for group B rally 40 years ago. Absolute monsters.

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#73

Post by kjkjadksj »

munificent wrote: post #71
bluedino wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Pickup trucks are great, but they're only available in "behemoth" size in the US. Not all trucks are 1/4 or 1/2 ton in the USA. There's things like the Honda Ridgeline, Hyundai Santa Cruze, and the Ford Maverick Subaru had the Baja for a little white but they only sold a couple thousand per year.

Agreed, they aren't all huge , but they are all pretty big and the few that aren't huge sacrifice a lot of bed size. I'm going through this now because I'm looking at upgrading from my ancient 2002 Tacoma Xtracab. Here's compared to 2025 models: Vehicle Length Bed ---------------------------- -------- ----- 2002 Toyota Tacoma (Xtracab) 202.9" 74.5" 2002 Toyota Tacoma (2Dr) 184.4" 74.5" 2025 Maverick 199.8" 54.4" 2025…

Why get rid of your perfectly fine truck? People would be lining up around the block for your truck. As you say they don’t make them like that anymore. Here in socal there are still 70s-80s era ford and chevy trucks in service. Those old f150s look tiny today. And in major demand even if they aren’t prestine.

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#74

Post by VintageRobot »

lewiscollard wrote: post #47
VintageRobot wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It isn't that simple. I've been learning to work on my own car over the last few years. I'm not even doing anything crazy just fixing up an older vehicle and modernising some parts of it (mainly interior). I had to fix the wiper system. The wiper system you would think it wouldn't matter much whether the parts are aftermarket or not. I was very wrong, parts that even look almost identical may not work properly, due t…

As someone building a particularly stupid car in a genre almost but not entirely unlike the OP (a turbo LS1-swapped Rover P5), I am not totally making stuff up when I say that this: > You have to be prepared to spend potentially years on it and huge amount of money, even on relatively simple projects. is not at all mutually exclusive to this: > Honestly, just learn it like anything else. I didn't really know what I w…

> As someone building a particularly stupid car in a genre almost but not entirely unlike the OP (a turbo LS1-swapped Rover P5),

I have no idea why people do this stuff to a nice car like a Rover P5. It isn't my car though.

> Start somewhere, and the more you do, the more you can do.

Obviously. But I had to do a lot of stuff that I wasn't prepared to do far quicker because the previous person who doing this took short cuts. I almost had the dash catch fire because someone did a bodge job on electricals instead of paying £15 for the correct part (a plastic plug).

The point I was making is that you are making it sound far simpler than it actually is. There been a good few weekends that have been sunny and I have honestly felt like I was wasting my time and couldn't face working on it.

I had to fit a new turbo and it took me about 3-4 weeks. Not because it was difficult (actually it one of the easier and nicer jobs IMO), it was sourcing parts around the turbo such as gaskets, copper washer kits and other dumb stuff like that.

There was constant trips to tool shops because I was always missing like a tool, trying to find a fitting/gromit in Halfords (they never have it) or a parts supplier 40 miles away in the sticks. It all adds up in both time and cost.

Now I know roughly who the order from, what I should order from etc. But that is going to be different for almost different manufacturer and worse if the stuff is more niche/custom.

The amount of the projects that get given up, suggest it not that easy.

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#75

Post by VintageRobot »

hoofhearted wrote: post #49
VintageRobot wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can't, unless you a Saudi billionaire. These things are completely custom, are hugely expensive (why they have sponsors all over them) and often they will have work lined up for literally years. You also wouldn't want one. They cannot be driven on the road really as they aren't legal. They will also break a lot. Generally the more tuned a car is the more maintenance it needs. If you are interested in cars, you ar…

You can have one built; you just call Vermont Sports Car lol. Yes, price is a major factor. No, you are completely incorrect on street legality; and way far from the truth lol The basis of a WRC rally car is that it is indeed street legal; and is required to be driven on the public roads with a proper license plate in between the stages of the rally.

[dead]

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#76

Post by LgWoodenBadger »

xeonmc wrote: post #68
LgWoodenBadger wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I can't think of any from the 90s that weren't 6 cylinders. Nissan 300Z, Nissan Skyline GT-R, Honda/Acura NSX, Toyota Supra, and Mitsubishi 3000GT VR-4 were all 6 cylinders. The only exceptions I can think of are the Subaru Impreza WRX/STI, and the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution.

Toyota MR2, Honda S2000, Mazda MX-5, Nissan S13/14/15 and 180SX

A majority of those made in the ballpark of 150hp or less, with the exception of the S2000. A few variants of the MR2 and the Nissan made over 200, but not many.

None ever came near Japan’s gentlemen’s agreement of “276” hp.

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#77

Post by olyjohn »

redwall_hp wrote: post #55
sandworm101 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

2 liters is hardly econobox, even without a turbo. A new honda civic sedan is 1.3 liters (NA). 2.0 is more typical for sedans imho. The 2.0 turbo in this biuld originally turned 250+ hp (wrx) which is well beyond econo anything.

That was a big thing with Japanese sports cars in general: proving more cylinders was a dead end and just extra weight. Pretty much all of the big JDM classics of the 90s and 2000s are 4-cyl (aside from Mazda's rotary engine cars) putting down 200-300hp range with favorable power/weight.

Yeah except the LS engine is still lighter than most 4 cylinder turbos. It's lighter than a lot of NA 4 cylinders, in fact.

The reason they stayed with smaller engines in Japan was because of taxes on displacement.

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#78

Post by briffle »

AlexandrB wrote: post #24
fragmede wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you’d need to flag a sheet of 4x8 in quite a few of the full sized pickups after you get the extended crew cab which shrinks the bed and makes them more of an SUV than a truck. THeres a platonic ideal of a truck bed holding 2x4 and 4x8 sheets, but it’s more of an ideal sometimes.

The overall problem is that the ratio of vehicle size to carrying capacity has gotten way larger. Small 2-seater pickup trucks could comfortably carry this stuff in the 80s and 90s and were not that much bigger than a sedan. Modern trucks are enormous and can't even carry as much unless you choose options that make them even bigger. Then compare this to something like a Kei truck and it's really quite pathetic.

They have shorter beds, because of the larger cab, but a 1975 Ram one ton could carry 3500 lbs of payload in the bed, and pull a 11,500lb trailer.

A 2025 one can carry 7500 lbs of payload in the bed, and tow 37,090 lbs (some states require extra permits or licenses for that much)

All modern trucks can carry and tow WAY more than they used to.

and the 1/2 ton ones have dramatically impvoved mileage (the modern 3L diesels do about 29Mpg, and the gas ones turn off cylinders when crusing, and can do 20-25mpg when empty. My older small pickup (old ram Dakota) from the early 2000's got 15-16 on the highway.

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#79

Post by olyjohn »

bluedino wrote: post #16
stickfigure wrote: post #11

Can we just bring back the Brat? A compact 4wd pickup truck with a pair of jump seats in the bed. Pickup trucks are great, but they're only available in "behemoth" size in the US.

> Pickup trucks are great, but they're only available in "behemoth" size in the US. Not all trucks are 1/4 or 1/2 ton in the USA. There's things like the Honda Ridgeline, Hyundai Santa Cruze, and the Ford Maverick Subaru had the Baja for a little white but they only sold a couple thousand per year.

Regardless of the capacity, the Ridgeline is not a small truck. There are no small trucks anymore. The Ranger and Colorado are not small trucks, they are mid size. Compare them to the pre-2019 Ranger, and the pre-2011 Colorados and S10s.

Sure, the Maverick is kinda small. But and does fine for most people, but it's not really built like a truck. For some reason, I can't handle this thing, because it's replaced real small trucks. It's just an Escape under the covers, and nobody considers the Escape to be a workhorse. Yet, I can give the Baja a pass, because it was honest in the fact that it's a car with a bit of a utility bed.

Re: Gymkhana's 1978 Subaru Brat with 9,500-RPM Redline, Active Aero

#80

Post by olyjohn »

alistairSH wrote: post #45
throwway120385 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wouldn't you need to flag a sheet of plywood in the back of a Maverick? My old '06 Canyon doesn't require that and it's actually a smaller truck than the Maverick.

Sure, but who cares? Unless you're a contractor/tradesperson, that's a fairly rare edge case. I've owned a few pickups over the years, owned my house much of that time, and can probably county the times I've needed to move plywood or other oversized lumber on one hand. Add a second hand for times I've moved long pipes or other oversized stuff that required flagging.

So then what the heck did you have a pickup for if you're not moving around large items?
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