[flagged]
Please stop posting LLM-generated comments to HN.
OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
71–80 of 256 posts
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would imagine providers who want to comply will scan the LLM's output and pay a license fee to the owner if it contains lyrics.
They scan for commercial work already. Isn’t the law about training, not output?
No, it’s specifically about (mostly) verbatim producing big chunks of lyrics in the output. The court PR specifically mentioned memorization, retaining training data, multiple times.
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#73It would be so hilarious if GEMA was actually useful for once and not a detriment to society and artists in general. However of course OpenAI will ignore this and at worst nothing will change and at best they get a slap on the wrist and a fine and continue scraping. You can’t take that stuff out of the models at this point anyway.
It'd be equally hilarious if that VC money would be used to actually better society by crushing GEMA in court. But realistically, all that will happen is that the "Pauschalabgabe" is extended to AI subscriptions, making stuff more expensive for everyone.
Damn I didn’t even consider the second part…
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#74It would be so hilarious if GEMA was actually useful for once and not a detriment to society and artists in general. However of course OpenAI will ignore this and at worst nothing will change and at best they get a slap on the wrist and a fine and continue scraping. You can’t take that stuff out of the models at this point anyway.
Nah. It’s so easy for OpenAI to modify their output. I’m already seeing them restrict news article re-generation by newspaper name. They do it to reduce liability. There’s also a big copyright infringement case coming up in the USA this year, and being able to point to responsiveness to complaints will be a key part of their legal defense I bet.
You can modify the output but the underlying model is always susceptible to jail breaks.
A method I tried a couple months ago to reliably get it to explain to me how to cook meth step by step still works. I’m not gonna share it, you just have to take my word on this.
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#75[dead]
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#76Of course the models are not human, but if you consider this situation as if they are persons, then the question becomes: May a person read lyrics and tell it to someone when asked, and the court's ruling basically says no, this may not happen, which makes little sense. I guess the main difference between the situation with language models and humans is one of scale. I think the question should be viewed like this, i…
> "May a person read lyrics and tell it to someone when asked" If you sell tickets to an event where you read the lyrics aloud, it's commercial performance and you need to pay the author. (Usually a cover artist would be singing, but that's not a requirement.) So it's not like a human can recite the lyrics anywhere freely either.
[dead]
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nah. It’s so easy for OpenAI to modify their output. I’m already seeing them restrict news article re-generation by newspaper name. They do it to reduce liability. There’s also a big copyright infringement case coming up in the USA this year, and being able to point to responsiveness to complaints will be a key part of their legal defense I bet.
You can modify the output but the underlying model is always susceptible to jail breaks. A method I tried a couple months ago to reliably get it to explain to me how to cook meth step by step still works. I’m not gonna share it, you just have to take my word on this.
I believe you, but you only need to establish a safety standard where jailbreaking is required by the end-user to show you are protecting property in good faith, AFAIK.
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#78With AI slop showing up everywhere, there’s a real danger that folks will just no longer be motivated to produce real original content. With all major models not basically trained on nearly all available data, beyond the financial AI bubble about to burst there’s also a big content bubble that’s about exhausted as folks are just pumping out slop vs producing original creative human output. That may be the ultimate lo…
We already have this in the physical world.
Plastic/synthetics are the slop of the physical world. They're a side product of extracting oil and gas so they're extremely cheap.
Yet if you look at synthetics by volume, probably 99% of them are used just because they're cheaper than the natural alternative. Yes, some have characteristics that are novel, but by and large everything we do with plastics is ultimately based on "they're cheaper".
Plastics, unfortunately, aren't going away.
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#79I am curious what happens if they call their bluff on this and cut off ChatGPT in Germany. Not that I think OpenAI is doing the right thing, just, I don’t think a country’s government can justify no commercial LLMs to its populace.
German student performance will plateau, while all other countries slowly decline.
Re: OpenAI may not use lyrics without license, German court rules
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
> "May a person read lyrics and tell it to someone when asked" If you sell tickets to an event where you read the lyrics aloud, it's commercial performance and you need to pay the author. (Usually a cover artist would be singing, but that's not a requirement.) So it's not like a human can recite the lyrics anywhere freely either.
If someone hires me as a secretary, and they ask me what is the lyrics of a song, there is no law that prohibits me from telling them if I know and I don't have to license the lyrics in order to do so. If they hire me primarily to recite lyrics, then sure, that would probably be some manner of infringement if I don't license them. But I feel like the case with a language model is much more the former than the latter.
As soon as you take the LLM output and publicize it, it turns around and is a lot more akin to having your secretary read out the lyrics publicly. If you don't publicize it in any way, how would the copyright holder ever find out?