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Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

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Re: Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

#71
post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right? This one is also very clear ChatGPTese > That’s not a marginal improvement; it’s a different way of building classifiers. They've replaced an em-dash with a semi-colon.

They are really getting to the heart of the problem!

You're absolutely right! They didn't just replace an em dash with a colon, they invented a whole new way of speaking.

/s if it wasn't obvious

Re: Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

#73
intuitively it has seemed that these kinds of "fuzzy text search" applications are an area where llms really shine. it's cool to see evidence of it working.

i'm curious about some kind of notion of "prompt overfitting." it's good to see the plots of improvement as the prompts change (although error bars probably would make sense here), but there's not much mention of hold out sets or other approaches to mitigate those concerns.

Re: Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

#75

And yet, the source problem still remains. The company has a shitty way of reporting quality issues in relation to parts and assemblies. Being an automaker, I can almost smell the silos where data resides, the rigidly defended lines between manufactures, sales and post-sales, the intra-departmental political fights. Then you have all the legacy of enterprise software. And the result is this shitty warranty claims dat…

Silos are the root of all evil.

Re: Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

#76

I'll note that they had a large annotated data set already that they were using to train and evaluate their own models. Once they decided to start testing LLMs it was straightforward for them to say "LLM 1 outperforms LLM 2" or "Prompt 3 outperforms Prompt 4". I'm afraid that people will draw the wrong conclusion from "We didn’t just replace a model. We replaced a process." and see it as an endorsement of the zero-sh…

> Thing is that to know it is good enough you still have to collect and annotate more data than most people and organizations want to do. This has been the bottleneck in every ML (not just text/LLM) project I’ve been part of. Not finding the right AI engineers. Not getting the MLops textbook perfect using the latest trends. It’s the collecting enough high quality data and getting it properly annotated and verified. T…

There was a post on here recently about how you should build your own agent, and I completely agree. I'd say most competent developers should be building even more complex projects than an agent. Once you do you quickly realize how it's a constant uphill battle, and it quickly becomes apparent that the data you're working with is the primary issue.

Re: Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

#77
It could have been done via topic analysis without an LLM.

In fact there are companies such as Medallia which specialize in CX and have really strong classification solutions for specifically these use cases (plus all the generative AI stuff for closing the loop).

Re: Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

#78

And yet, the source problem still remains. The company has a shitty way of reporting quality issues in relation to parts and assemblies. Being an automaker, I can almost smell the silos where data resides, the rigidly defended lines between manufactures, sales and post-sales, the intra-departmental political fights. Then you have all the legacy of enterprise software. And the result is this shitty warranty claims dat…

As someone that also worked at a large automakers, I think you’re making large, unfounded assumptions.

Warranty data flows up from the technicians - good luck getting any auto technician to properly tag data. Their job is to fix a specific customer’s problem, not identify systematic issues.

There’s a million things that make the data inherently messy. For example, a technician might replace 5 parts before they finally identify the root cause.

Therefore, you need some sort of department to sit between millions of raw claims and engineering. I would be curious what kind of alternative you have in mind?

Re: Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thing is that to know it is good enough you still have to collect and annotate more data than most people and organizations want to do. This has been the bottleneck in every ML (not just text/LLM) project I’ve been part of. Not finding the right AI engineers. Not getting the MLops textbook perfect using the latest trends. It’s the collecting enough high quality data and getting it properly annotated and verified. T…

Amen brother. Working on a computer vision project right now, it's a wild success. This isn't my first CV project, but it's the most successful one. And that chiefly because my client pulled out their wallets and let an army of annotators create all the train data I asked for, and more.

This has been the huge problem in AI research since at least 1998 (and that was just when I was first exposed to it). With data, everything is so much easier, and much simpler machine learning methods.

Supervised learning. Took a while to make that work well.

And then every few years someone comes up with a way to distill data out of unsupervised examples. GPT is these days the big example of that, but there was "ImageNet (unlabeled)" and LAION before that too. The issue is that there is just so much unsupervised data.

Now LLMs use that pretty well (even though stuffing everything into an LLM is getting old, and as this article points out, in any specific application they tend to get bested by something like XGBoost with very simple models)

The next frontier is probably "world models", where you first train unsupervised, not to train your model but to predict the world. THEN you train the model in this simulated, predicted world. That's the reason Yann Lecun really really wants to go down this direction.

Re: Honda: 2 years of ml vs 1 month of prompting - heres what we learned

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Thing is that to know it is good enough you still have to collect and annotate more data than most people and organizations want to do. This has been the bottleneck in every ML (not just text/LLM) project I’ve been part of. Not finding the right AI engineers. Not getting the MLops textbook perfect using the latest trends. It’s the collecting enough high quality data and getting it properly annotated and verified. T…

There was a post on here recently about how you should build your own agent, and I completely agree. I'd say most competent developers should be building even more complex projects than an agent. Once you do you quickly realize how it's a constant uphill battle, and it quickly becomes apparent that the data you're working with is the primary issue.

I don't know if that is what gp and above is talking about. "Agents" are the kind of thing/word that helps to paper over the very fact that these things only work because of huge amount of humans in-the-loop in the outset (that is, you know, labor). Agents help us believe that LLM's can do everything for us, even bootstrap themselves, but, what the above thread is about is that, really, what you get out correlates only to what you put in in the first place.
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