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US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

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Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#71

Post by inglor_cz »

philipwhiuk wrote: post #55
throwaway173738 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a whole network of radars and communication centers that are not part of any specific airport. How would you fund that through use fees at an airport?

You could do airspace overflight fees similar to how it works when you overfly other countries. It would make routing a tonne more complex tho

On the other hand, if the fees corresponded to actual use, that would mean that the infrastructure along the most frequented corridors would automatically be the best funded one, which would probably be overall positive.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#72

Post by fzeroracer »

an0malous wrote: post #64
fzeroracer wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, there's one critical flaw which is that Trump is also fucking up with the military. A lot of military members are going unpaid, and many more are going unpaid and their family isn't receiving snap benefits. An authoritarian trying to seize power without the backing of the military is bound to lead to failure, and even though money is being funneled into ICE enmasse they're an untrained legion of goons with litt…

ICE is being paid

ICE is effectively just a government-paid gang designed to harass immigrants and any citizen they think is a bit too uppity. They don't have any actual power to do things like holding down a city or enforcing martial law without the aid of the actual military or national guard. They have guns but not THE guns.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#73

Post by slg »

Waterluvian wrote: post #36
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wielded by deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. And those who aren't those things are demonstrably too weak to do anything about it. I have a sense that things will only improve once they hit an intolerable low. And the longer it takes for that to happen…

I can't deny that and maybe would even agree with that as an abstract theory, but I just can't stomach the amount of misery and death that would come along with this to ever use a word like "hope" to describe that outcome.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#74

Post by dummydummy1234 »

slashdev wrote: post #18
montroser wrote: post #2

What is Trump's endgame here? Everyone stranded for Thanksgiving, poor kids going hungry, all for...what, exactly?

Why do you blame Trump for the shutdown? Isn't it caused by Congress basically failing to agree on a funding continuation? (I think it's been ages since they could actually go further and agree on a budget). Government shutdowns are common under both Republican and Democrat administrations. You can say he refuses to compromise, but clearly so does the other side, hence the impasse.

The issue is that the Democrats 'compromised' on the last funding bill - basically had an agreement that some programs would stay funded.

Then the trump administration said "funding allocations from Congress are limits, and we do not have to spend that much on these programs if there is not a need"

And then stopped funding things anyway.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#75

Post by arzig »

lesuorac wrote: post #24
nostrademons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting how the effects of filter bubbles are playing out here. Everyone believes that they have the upper hand and the majority of the American people are on their side, because computerized personalization shows them only opinions from people who agree with them. As a result, they think that the negative popular opinion for the shutdown will fall primarily on the other party, and so it is rational for them…

[flagged]

So you’re saying the solution since Republicans control congress they should do away with the filibuster, pass a check funding bill and then continue governing under bare majorities with no filibuster?

I don’t particularly like that outcome and I think the public understands that democrats have at least some leverage or they wouldn’t be acting in this way.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#76

Post by alemanek »

crooked-v wrote: post #14
mothballed wrote: post #4

It's wild ATC isn't funded by use fees instead of being appropriated by congress. Seems like a good opportunity to provide some mechanism so the government has to shit or get off the pot, because if the government won't do the job the airlines would surely be glad to pay for the service themselves.

From what I understand, ATC also covers military flights in the US, which gives a pretty good national security reason to have central control over it... at least when a particular party isn't intentionally trying to destroy it along with various other government functions.

I think the argument is more that ATC, people and equipment needed, should be funded via use fees.

This ensures that the system is self sustaining. Also as demand increases then revenue to run the system would also increase.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#77

Post by blensor »

koolba wrote: post #54
actionfromafar wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s MAGA for you.

[flagged]

Since the democrats are not the ones in power at the moment, don't they have the bigger obligation towards the position of the people who voted for them. Which would be exactly the demand they are making right now.

The party who is running the country does in theory have an obligation to all Americans, the opposition has an obligation to their own block.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#78

Post by metalman »

at a certain point, rebooting ATC could become exceptionaly difficult, as the whole aviation comunity, flys. And no, you cant train new AT controllers, they learn on the job, and what a job it is! as part of our pilot training they took us into a controll tower, which is a radicaly modern, high tech, high security environment, and let us hang around, the senior hand started chatting with us, while directing air traffic, ground traffic, confering with coleages, talking on the phone, telling us a joke, all at once, and his timing was so good, that the joke was still funny......these are guys who can do other stuff

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#79

Post by neilv »

e40 wrote: post #6
montroser wrote: post #2

What is Trump's endgame here? Everyone stranded for Thanksgiving, poor kids going hungry, all for...what, exactly?

Their goal, since they 80's, has been to make government look incompetent so they can privatize it and use as a weapon against their adversaries (who they argue want "big government").

How much do they need that angle anymore?

Recent history shows that a lot of the old rules, about persuasion and enabling actions, don't currently apply.

Re: US air traffic controllers start resigning as shutdown bites

#80

Post by sebastiennight »

Waterluvian wrote: post #36
slg wrote: post #16

I know many of the people reading this will think I'm being hysterical. But there was a small voice in the back of my mind when the shutdown started wondering whether that version of the American government would ever reopen and that voice has started to become much louder in recent days. Specifically the combination of this, the handling of SNAP benefits, and this all happening in November just seems intentionally d…

The sooner things become intolerably broken in the U.S. the better off I think the rest of the world is. The U.S. kind of scares me right now. So much power, wielded by deeply incompetent, broken, and evil people. And those who aren't those things are demonstrably too weak to do anything about it. I have a sense that things will only improve once they hit an intolerable low. And the longer it takes for that to happen…

A major part of the plot of The Every[0] is one protagonist's belief, akin to yours, that precipitating things to their worst outcome could be the fastest way to snap public opinion back to sanity.

I don't want to spoil the suspense, but I'll say that I do see the logic in hoping that a quick fire would call everyone's attention to the fire hazard. What you're failing to ask here is "What could possibly go wrong with this plan?"

[0]: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Every

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