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Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

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Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#71
The podcast 'in our time' (bbc) has an episode on 'copyright': https://pca.st/episode/928a7b98-18c0-4c70-8558-8ef982ce08de

From its title

"In 1710, the British Parliament passed a piece of legislation entitled An Act for the Encouragement of Learning. It became known as the Statute of Anne, and it was the world’s first copyright law. Copyright protects and regulates a piece of work - whether that's a book, a painting, a piece of music or a software programme. It emerged as a way of balancing the interests of authors, artists, publishers, and the public in the context of evolving technologies and the rise of mechanical reproduction. Writers and artists such as Alexander Pope, William Hogarth and Charles Dickens became involved in heated debates about ownership and originality that continue to this day - especially with the emergence of artificial intelligence. With:

Lionel Bently, Herchel Smith Professor of Intellectual Property Law at the University of Cambridge

Will Slauter, Professor of History at Sorbonne University, Paris

Katie McGettigan, Senior Lecturer in American Literature at Royal Holloway, University of London.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#72
post #55

End fair-use protection for harvesting. Otherwise creators will be forced to use new forms of anti-piracy.

Google has been harvesting for a quarter of a century, imo that cat has been out of the bag for quite a while now.

Irrelevant. Different end state. Different revenue. A claim to unique enough result to monetize.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#73

It makes wonder what will happen when robots will really take care of everything unpleasant there might be to do in life. All these laws and social systems designed to pretend merit and hard effort is why there are ridiculously disparate of wealth among humans, it's not going to accept that wage slavery is actually not only irrelevant but far more inefficient. It's not going to stop without change resistance for sure…

These robots will be used to eliminate the working class.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#74
post #5

I am still torn on this issue. On the one hand, it feels like a copyright violation when other people's works are used to train an ML model. On the other hand, it is not a copyright infringement if I paint a picture in the Studio Ghibli style myself. The question is whether removing a ‘skill requirement’ for replication is sufficient grounds to determine a violation.

It's less about paint a picture yourself, arguably there is little to no value there. OpenAI et al, sell the product of creating pictures in the style of their material. I see this as a direct competition to Studio Ghibli's right to produce their own material with their own IP.

I agree with this. I don't know how to create artistic styles by hand or using any creative software for that matter. All the LLM tools out there gave me the "ability" and "talent" to create something "good enough" and, in some cases, pretty close to the original art.

I rarely use these tools (I'm not in marketing, game design, or any related field), but I can see the problem these tools are causing to artists, etc.

Any LLM company offering these services needs to pay the piper.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#75
post #30

Human learning is transformative. It takes time. Time, not money, is the criteria for value to human life. Humans can re-draw in styles they see and the law sees it as transformative work. Humans draw conclusions from learning and apply it to other fields - that’s natural intelligence. If AI helps humans make more new, transformative work, not the same characters as the studios, not the same plots, then the studio sh…

There’s certainly a difference with AI. Not only can it reproduce exactly the same characters - in fact I doubt you can train the style without this ability - it puts those characters in reach of crayon-age children at a professional capacity. This crosses the line between copying and enabling IP theft in my mind. While I don’t agree with our current IP laws, the ease and rapidity of this seems like a real problem. H…

Exploring the scenarios and corner cases is how rules should be written, just like any code.

In this case producing anything commercial and anything with AI period should always be disclosed.

Since at this stage we can often tell when something is AI (though not everyone and not always), especially food images at a restaurant, for me that immediately downgrades the quality or value of a product That’s going to be the natural human response. And users of the tech will likely be lumped in with very poor attempts, downgrading the value of anyone who uses it. That is natural payback for trying to go commercial.

However in the hobbyist space - the space where humans learn what AI attempts will also do is expand the creative space massively - people will get to iterate much faster with their own styles and new styles will emerge. Just like the invention of writing and publishing - the original writers were people with tremendous time and resource privilege on their hands, but the art of writing would have never ever bloomed if it didn’t become available to anyone over time. Humans then draw higher order conclusions and insights from the abundance, even if it takes energy for filtering.

That said, abuse in the form of pretending something generated is real or taking credit for generated work as real should be illegal. If you teach the moral compass along with the book or you built the identification along with the work you will get a lot more authentic novelty even with AI tools.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#76
post #33

In the world of tattooing, it’s frowned upon for a tattoo artist to take another tattoo artist’s original work and replicate it without permission, yet it’s common practice to take well known IP (Pokémon, Studio Ghibli, etc) and tattoo that on a client. The ethical boundary seems to be between whether the source artwork was created by an individual vs. a corporation.

That is a huge oversimplification.

In the tattoo case, tattooing pikachu on a person does not harm Nintendo’s business, but copying another tattoo artist’s work or style directly takes their business. Tattoo art is an industry where your art style largely defines your career.

I can see the argument LLMs are transformative, but when you set up specific evaluation of copying a company/artist and then advertise that you clone that specific studio’s work, that’s harming them and in my opinion crossing a line.

This isn’t an individual vs corporation thing, (though people are very selfish).

There’s so much more here than just corporate vs individual. There’s the sheer scale of it, the enforcement double standards, questions of consent, and taking advantage of the commons (artists public work) etc. To characterize it as people not liking business is plain wrong.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#77

How have they gotten the "Studio Ghibli" look into the training data? Have they actually bought all the movies, or how does it work?

It's possible that they purchased the movies (although definitely without the proper licensing; buying a DVD allows for personal use, not training a commercial model), or maybe they simply pirated them.

It's also possible that models' entire understanding of the aesthetic comes from screenshots of the movie. Even if OpenAI didn't feed in each frame of the movie, they definitely fed in lots of images from the web, some of which were almost certainly movie screenshots.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#78

To me, it was a tasteless and awful act, but not illegal. Anyone else see that distinction?

Not illegal where? If you're in Japan here's a fun thing to try:

1. Ask ChatGPT to generate some Ghibli-likes for you.

2. Find a local photo printing store prepared to print and blockmount them for you (this is actually the hardest part - most will politely tell you to piss off).

3. List them on Mercari or Rakuma.

4. Regularly relist them as they're periodically removed for violating local counterfeiting laws.

5. Eventually explain yourself to a judge and maybe go to prison for a year.

Technically you only need to do 1 and some of 2 to be committing a crime in Japan.

Re: Studio Ghibli, Bandai Namco, Square Enix Demand OpenAI to Stop Using Their IP

#79
post #52

This will be litigated and I have a feeling OpenAI/Anthropic/Claude/MistralAI will win, since we've been down similar roads before[1]. With that said, AI slop will never be a replacement for human creativity, and while AI is pretty incredible technology, I'm actually way more bullish on people. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sony_Corp._of_America_v._Unive... .

You don’t grasp how anime and IP are underwritten by the state in Japan. It will firewall this and then other creators will follow their lead. The point is to head off slop, not allow it. Litigation isn’t the end, firewalls are.

We’re deving a game AI can’t use. We’ve invented several firewalls.

This is the future.

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