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Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

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Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#71

Post by golly_ned »

jrauser wrote: post #28
GiorgioG wrote: post #4

Best decision I ever made was repeatedly ignoring emails from Amazon recruiters while they were allowing remote work around the pandemic. Fuck that place.

One of the better decisions I ever made was not ignoring emails from folks recruiting for Amazon in 2003. It was a different place back then, and truly like "the world's largest startup." The other thing that was different back then was that the people I worked with were all so blindingly smart. I'm pretty smart, but in 2003 I often felt like the dumbest person in the room[1]. In 2025 that feeling was rare, and not s…

When did things start going south, in terms of what year, or what events?

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#72

Post by cosmicgadget »

amyjess wrote: post #11

> “We are committed to operating like the world’s largest startup, and … that means removing layers.” I learned a long time ago that behaving like a startup is not a good thing, and I've specifically oriented my career towards working at companies that don't even want to pretend to imitate startup culture. I'm very happy in enterprise-land.

It is especially not a good thing when you need to provide reliable services, coordinate across multiple business units, retain talent not chasing an equity payday, and protect your moat.

Full disclosure: I do not have an MBA.

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#73

Post by rvz »

supportengineer wrote: post #42
palmotea wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Culture of importing cheaper labor that they can manipulate. > The H1B program is broken and ripe for abuse. Offshoring is a much bigger problem. These abusive companies can "save" way more money by exporting the job than importing a worker to fill it, and pandemic-era changes have accelerated that.

I'm starting to think offshoring is better for America. Because house prices are unaffordable. Should a simple house really be $2 million ?

> I'm starting to think offshoring is better for America.

Except you are offshoring for less than the "Best and Brightest" that can be done in the US, especially at Amazon.

In fact, the most unqualified of the bottom of the barrel are being sought out because it is cheap. Not for actual skills and 'talent'.

> Because house prices are unaffordable. Should a simple house really be $2 million ?

Given that everyone believes that their house will keep going up leads me to think that thanks to AI, we are certainly going to have a 1929 style flash crash in house prices with less jobs when AI companies start declaring "AGI".

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#74

Post by cosmicgadget »

toephu2 wrote: post #55
ceejayoz wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The culture is "I want another yacht".

To be fair, there is no public information indicating that Andy Jassy has his own yacht.

Maybe he is a private train or airship guy. I can respect that.

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#75

Post by ryandvm »

amyjess wrote: post #11

> “We are committed to operating like the world’s largest startup, and … that means removing layers.” I learned a long time ago that behaving like a startup is not a good thing, and I've specifically oriented my career towards working at companies that don't even want to pretend to imitate startup culture. I'm very happy in enterprise-land.

100%

Finding out that one of the world's largest economic forces aspires to burn out their workforce and spend more time shooting from the hip is depressing.

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#76

Post by thih9 »

lotsofpulp wrote: post #40
thih9 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sane workload, work hours and vacation days for a start. It’s 2025 and I still see “unlimited PTO” in many places.

That comes with high profit margin and moat (for your specific labor, not just the business's moat). If you don't have leverage, you won't get those things regardless of enterprise or small business.

Sure but overtime in enterprise is paid. In a startup you might get some worthless equity.

Also, in startups these things still happen more often, the culture normalizes unpaid overtime, unused PTO, etc. E.g.:

> While overtime is a reality in both startups and large corporations, the difference lies in the motivation behind it. In startups, work goes beyond traditional hours, not out of obligation, but from a genuine passion and commitment to achieving shared goals.

source: https://www.sdsolutions.tech/post/what-is-a-startup-culture

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#77

Post by ryandvm »

supportengineer wrote: post #35
amyjess wrote: post #11

> “We are committed to operating like the world’s largest startup, and … that means removing layers.” I learned a long time ago that behaving like a startup is not a good thing, and I've specifically oriented my career towards working at companies that don't even want to pretend to imitate startup culture. I'm very happy in enterprise-land.

It's hard to beat the authority and responsibility one personally has at a startup.

Lol. You'll have exactly 1/1,500,000 the authority and responsibility.

They don't mean empowering their workforce. "We want to act more like a startup" is code for we want less accountability for bad decisions.

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#78

Post by cosmicgadget »

toephu2 wrote: post #58
somelamer567 wrote: post #32

Sure, the culture of "Jeff wants another yacht"

Jeff isn't running Amazon anymore, it's Andy Jassy, who doesn't own a yacht.

Chairman of the board probably can afford another yacht with amzn up 10% today. He probably even talks about things with Jassy.

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#79

Post by whatshisface »

legitster wrote: post #64

From Jassy's blog post in September: >It’s created artifacts that we’d like to change (e.g., pre-meetings for the pre-meetings for the decision meetings, a longer line of managers feeling like they need to review a topic before it moves forward, owners of initiatives feeling less like they should make recommendations because the decision will be made elsewhere, etc.) [...] So, we’re asking each s-team organization to…

If the problem is that lower-downs are carrying out extensive planning for meetings where higher-ups are present, the culture issue might not be with the people who are adapting...

Re: Amazon says it didn't cut people because of money. But because of 'culture'

#80

Post by catlover76 »

thih9 wrote: post #36
somanyphotons wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What are the aspects that you're looking for from enterprise-land

Sane workload, work hours and vacation days for a start. It’s 2025 and I still see “unlimited PTO” in many places.

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