There is something hilarious about using a project/package manager written in another language.
Wait til you find out what CPython is written in.
Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
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Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#72I must be the odd man out but I am not a fan of uv. 1. It tries to do too many things. Please just do one thing and do it well. It's simultaneously trying to replace pip, pyenv, virtualenv, and ruff in one command. 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip. 3. It does not play well with Docker. 4. It adds more complexity. You end up needing to understand all of these new enviro…
Your implication is that pyenv, virtualenv, and pip should be 3 different tools. But for the average developer, these tools are all related to managing the python environment and versions which in my head sounds like one thing. Other languages don't have 3 different tools for this.
pip and virtualenv also add a ton of complexity and when they break (which happens quite often) debugging it is even harder despite them being "battle tested" tools.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#73I must be the odd man out but I am not a fan of uv. 1. It tries to do too many things. Please just do one thing and do it well. It's simultaneously trying to replace pip, pyenv, virtualenv, and ruff in one command. 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip. 3. It does not play well with Docker. 4. It adds more complexity. You end up needing to understand all of these new enviro…
> 1. It tries to do too many things. Please just do one thing and do it well. It's simultaneously trying to replace pip, pyenv, virtualenv, and ruff in one command.
In my experience it generally does all of those well. Are you running into issues with the uv replacements?
> 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip.
What do end up needing to use `uv pip` for?
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#74I must be the odd man out but I am not a fan of uv. 1. It tries to do too many things. Please just do one thing and do it well. It's simultaneously trying to replace pip, pyenv, virtualenv, and ruff in one command. 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip. 3. It does not play well with Docker. 4. It adds more complexity. You end up needing to understand all of these new enviro…
> 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip.
Needing pip and virtualenvs was enough to make me realize uv wasn't what I was looking for. If I still need to manage virtualenvs and call pip I'm just going to do so with both of these directly.
I had been hoping someone would introduce the non-virtualenv package management solution that every single other language has where there's a dependency list and version requirements (including of the language itself) in a manifest file (go.mod, package.json, etc) and everything happens in the context of that directory alone without shell shenanigans.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#75For single-file Python scripts, which 99% of mine seem to be, you can simplify your life immensely by just putting this at the top of the script: #!/usr/bin/env -S uv run --script # /// script # requires-python = ">=3.11" # dependencies = [ "modules", "here" ] # /// The script now works like a standalone executable, and uv will magically install and use the specified modules.
If I were to put on my security hat, things like this give me shivers. It's one thing if you control the script and specified the dependencies. For any other use-case, you're trusting the script author to not install python dependencies that could be hiding all manner of defects or malicious intent. This isn't a knock against UV, but more a criticism of dynamic dependency resolution. I'd feel much better about this i…
If you’re executing a script from an untrusted source, you should be examining it anyway. If it fails to execute because you haven’t installed the correct dependencies, that’s an inconvenience, not a lucky security benefit. You can write a reverse shell in Python with no dependencies and just a few lines of code.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#76I must be the odd man out but I am not a fan of uv. 1. It tries to do too many things. Please just do one thing and do it well. It's simultaneously trying to replace pip, pyenv, virtualenv, and ruff in one command. 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip. 3. It does not play well with Docker. 4. It adds more complexity. You end up needing to understand all of these new enviro…
I would also add UV_NO_SYNC as smth I had to learn. It comes in combination with uv pip
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#77Venv seems pretty straightforward once you’ve learned the one activate command. I don’t really get that uv solves all these problems ve never encountered. Just make a venv and use it seems to work fine.
For me the biggest value of uv was replacing pyenv for managing multiple versions of python. So uv replaced pyenv+pyenv-virtualenv+pip
With uvx it also replaces pipx.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#78I must be the odd man out but I am not a fan of uv. 1. It tries to do too many things. Please just do one thing and do it well. It's simultaneously trying to replace pip, pyenv, virtualenv, and ruff in one command. 2. You end up needing to use `uv pip` so it's not even a full replacement for pip. 3. It does not play well with Docker. 4. It adds more complexity. You end up needing to understand all of these new enviro…
What do you mean it doesn't play well with docker?
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#79I hadn't paid any attention to rust before uv, but since starting to use uv, I've switched a lot of my performance-sensitive code dev to rust (with interfaces to python). These sorts of improvements really do improve my quality of life significantly. My hope is that conda goes away completely. I run an ML cluster and we have multi-gigabyte conda directories and researchers who can't reproduce anything because just to…
As far as I get it, conda is still around because uv is focused on python while conda handles things written in other languages. Unless uv gets much more universal than expected, conda is here to stay.
Re: Uv is the best thing to happen to the Python ecosystem in a decade
#80And Rust is the best thing to happen to CS in a decade