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"ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

terriblesoftware.org

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Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#71

Post by satisfice »

markfeathers wrote: post #32
lrvick wrote: post #23

I do not use AI for engineering work and never will, because doing the work of thinking for myself is how I maintain the neural capacity for forming my own original thoughts and ideas no AI has seen before. If anyone gives me an opinion from an AI, they disrespect me and themselves to a point they are dead to me in an engineering capacity. Once someone outsources their brain they are unlikely to keep learning or evol…

I do not use books for engineering work and never will, because doing the work of thinking for myself is how I maintain the neural capacity for forming my own original thoughts and ideas no writer has seen before. If anyone gives me an opinion from a book, they disrespect me and themselves to a point they are dead to me in an engineering capacity. Once someone outsources their brain they are unlikely to keep learning…

Congratulations on misunderstanding and misrepresenting the point. (This is sarcasm, btw.)

It’s not the source that matters. It’s not the source that he’s complaining about. It’s the nature of the interaction with the source.

I’m not against watching video, but I won’t watch TikTok videos, because they are done in a way that is dangerously addictive. The nature of engagement with TikTok is the issue, not “I can’t learn from electrical devices.”

Each of us must beware of the side effects of using tools. Each kind of tool has its hazards.

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#72

Post by 000ooo000 »

simonw wrote: post #59
saulpw wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "a good model (if you know how to operate it well)" is doing a lot of lifting. To be sure, there are a lot of bad books, and you can get negative advice from them, but a book has fixed content that can gain and lose a reputation, whereas a model (even a good one!) has highly variable content dependent on "if you know how to operate it well". So when someone or some group that I respect recommends a book, I can r…

I agree that quoting a model's answer to someone else is bad form - you can get a model to say ANYTHING if you prompt it to, so a screenshot of a ChatGPT conversation to try and prove a point is meaningless slop. I find models vastly more useful than most technical books in my own work because I know how to feed in the right context and then ask them the right questions about it. There isn't a book on earth that coul…

>There isn't a book on earth that could answer the question "which remaining parts of my codebase still use the .permission_allowed() method and what edge-cases do they have that would prevent them from being upgraded to the new .allowed() mechanism"?

You're so close to realising why the book counter argument doesn't make any sense!

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#73

Post by 000ooo000 »

throwaway-0001 wrote: post #66
theamk wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course I respect humans, I am a human myself! And I learned a lot from others, asking them (occasionally stupid) questions and listening to their explanations. Doing the same to other is just being fair. Explain a thing and make someone more knowledgeable! Maybe next time _they_ will help you! This does not apply to AI of course. In most cases, if a person did an AI PR/comment once, they will keep doing AI PRs/com…

[flagged]

The same, you say?

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#74

Post by lcnPylGDnU4H9OF »

lrvick wrote: post #34
paulcole wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If this pisses you off, ask yourself why. Why would it piss me off that you’re so closed minded about an incredible technology?

Using an AI to think for me would be like going to a gym and paying a robot to lift weights for me. Like sure that is cool that is possible, but if I do not do the work myself I will not get stronger. Our brains are the same way. I also do not use a GPS because there are literally studies with MRI scans proving it makes an entire section of our brain go dark compared to London taxi drivers required by law to navigate…

> Using an AI to think for me

People are using LLMs to generate code without doing this.

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#75

Post by conartist6 »

throwaway-0001 wrote: post #50
conartist6 wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah except it's not quite the same thing, is it? The fact that you're presenting this as a comically absurd comparison tells me that you know well that it's an absurd comparison.

At least you can counter with an argument. You just seem to agree both are absurd.

Nah, I thought OP was spot on. A book isn't in the same class of things as an automated bullshit generator.

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#76

Post by OptionOfT »

lrvick wrote: post #23

I do not use AI for engineering work and never will, because doing the work of thinking for myself is how I maintain the neural capacity for forming my own original thoughts and ideas no AI has seen before. If anyone gives me an opinion from an AI, they disrespect me and themselves to a point they are dead to me in an engineering capacity. Once someone outsources their brain they are unlikely to keep learning or evol…

This is absolutely spot on how I feel about all of it.

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#77

Post by sanswork »

satisfice wrote: post #70
sanswork wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I will not use Jr developers for engineering work and never will, because doing the work of a Jr..... You don't have to outsource your thinking to find value in AI tools you just have to find the right tasks for them. The same as you would with any developer jr to you. I'm not going to use AI to engineer some new complex feature of my system but you can bet I'm going to use it to help with refactoring or test writing…

FFS stop it with the “it’s just the same as a human” BS. It’s not just like working with a junior engineer! Please spend 60 seconds genuinely reflecting on that argument before letting it escape like drool from the lips of your writing fingers. We work with junior engineers because we are investing in them. We will get a return on that investment. We also work with other humans because they are accountable for their…

I'm not saying it's the same as working with a jr developer. I'm saying that not using something less skilled than yourself for less skilled tasks is stupid and self defeating.

Yes, when someone builds a straw man you ignore it. There is a huge canyon between never use AI in engineer(op proposal) and only use AI for all your engineering(op complaint).

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#78

Post by zenoprax »

noir_lord wrote: post #13
einsteinx2 wrote: post #3

I’ve noticed this trend in comments across the internet. Someone will ask or say something, the someone else will reply with “I asked ChatGPT and it says…” or “According to AI…” ChatGPT is free and available to everyone, and so are a dozen other LLMs. If the person making the comment wanted to know what ChatGPT had to say, they could just ask it themselves. I guess people feel like they’re being helpful, but I just d…

To modifying a hitchism. > What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. Becomes > That which can be asserted without thought can be dismissed without thought. Since no current AI thinks but humans do I’m just going to dismiss anything an AI says out of hand because you are pushing the cost of parsing what it said onto me and off you and nah, ain’t accepting that.

Elegant and correct. It seems so obvious to me that if someone wanted a ChatGPT answer they would have sought it out for themselves and yet... it's happened to me more than a few times. I think some people think they are being clever and resourceful (or 'efficient') but it just dilutes their own authority on that which they were asked to opine.

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#79

Post by OptionOfT »

jasonlotito wrote: post #41
lrvick wrote: post #23

I do not use AI for engineering work and never will, because doing the work of thinking for myself is how I maintain the neural capacity for forming my own original thoughts and ideas no AI has seen before. If anyone gives me an opinion from an AI, they disrespect me and themselves to a point they are dead to me in an engineering capacity. Once someone outsources their brain they are unlikely to keep learning or evol…

> I do not use AI for engineering work and never will So, working with CLAUDE doesn't count. Gotcha. > If this pisses you off, ask yourself why. It doesn't piss me off, but your comment is disingenuous at best.

I really dislike how the companies try to antromorphisize their software offerings.

At my previous company they called it 'sparring with '. You don't 'work' with Claude.

You use the software, you instruct it what to do. And it gives you an output that you can then (hopefully) utilize. It's not human.

Re: "ChatGPT said this" Is Lazy

#80

Post by lrvick »

sanswork wrote: post #51
lrvick wrote: post #23

I do not use AI for engineering work and never will, because doing the work of thinking for myself is how I maintain the neural capacity for forming my own original thoughts and ideas no AI has seen before. If anyone gives me an opinion from an AI, they disrespect me and themselves to a point they are dead to me in an engineering capacity. Once someone outsources their brain they are unlikely to keep learning or evol…

I will not use Jr developers for engineering work and never will, because doing the work of a Jr..... You don't have to outsource your thinking to find value in AI tools you just have to find the right tasks for them. The same as you would with any developer jr to you. I'm not going to use AI to engineer some new complex feature of my system but you can bet I'm going to use it to help with refactoring or test writing…

> The reality is that you will be unlikely to compete with people who use these tools effectively.

If you looked me or my work up, I think you would likely feel embarrassed by this statement. I have a number of world firsts under my belt that AI would have been unable to meaningfully help with.

It is also unlikely I would have every developed the skill to do any of that aside from doing everything the hard way.

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