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Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

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Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#71
post #53

I will never, ever understand this "single-packet authentication" "port knocking" fetish. It has never made sense. Bin it, along with fail2ban, and just set up WireGuard. Your network authentication should not be a fun game or series of Rube Goldberg contraptions.

Fail2ban is not in the same realm as port knocking, and to "bin it" would be foolish security posture at best, and negligent at worst.

No, fail2ban is cargo cult security, and if you actually "need" it, you've misconfigured your system. Don't allow password authentication.

Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#73
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fail2ban is not in the same realm as port knocking, and to "bin it" would be foolish security posture at best, and negligent at worst.

No, fail2ban is cargo cult security, and if you actually "need" it, you've misconfigured your system. Don't allow password authentication.

[deleted]

Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#74

Its 2025, Just use Tailscale.

If you're running a homelab, the likelihood that you're interested in removing cloud-dependencies from your stack is above average. If that's the case, Tailscale is out. Tailscale is just an added unnecessary external dependency layer (& security attack surface) on top of vanilla Wireguard. And in 2025 it's easier to run vanilla Wireguard than it's ever been.

Normally I'd agree with the philosophy, but I don't really see how you can say this about vanilla Wireguard in particular considering how involved it is, especially if you have more than 2 devices that you want to connect together.

Not only do you need to manually manage the keys for each device and make sure they're present in every other device's configuration, but plain Wireguard also cannot punch through NATs and firewalls without any open ports like Tailscale can, as far as I know.

Combine that with the fact that networking issues can be some of the hardest to diagnose and fix, and something like Tailscale becomes a no-brainer. If you prefer using plain Wireguard instead, that's fine, and I still use it too for some more specific use cases, but trying to argue that Tailscale is entirely unnecessary is just wrong.

Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#75
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fail2ban is not in the same realm as port knocking, and to "bin it" would be foolish security posture at best, and negligent at worst.

I’m not super familiar with the intricacies of fail2ban and don’t currently understand why op made that claim but would very much like to know more because he is talking about a topic he is highly regarded for and I respect that. I just don’t have the context.

Port-knocking mainly mitigates slow distributed-brute-force login attacks, and works best when ports are interleaved with several tripwire black-hole and knock-port-close firewall rules.

Use-cases:

1. helps auto-ban hosts doing port-scans or using online vulnerability scanners

2. helps reduce further ingress for a few minutes as the hostile sees the site is "down". Generally, try to waste as much of a problem users time as possible, as it changes the economics of breaking networked systems.

3. the firewall rule-trigger delay means hostiles have a harder time guessing which action triggered a IP ban. If every login attempt costs 3 days, folks would have to be pretty committed to breaking into a simple website.

4. keeps failed login log noise to a minimum, so spotting actual problems is easier

5. Easier to forensically analyze the remote packet stream when doing a packet dump tap, as only the key user traffic is present

6. buys time to patch vulnerable code when zero day exploits hits other hosts exposed services

7. most administrative ssh password-less key traffic should be tunneled over SSL web services, and thus attackers have a greater challenge figuring out if dynamic service-switching is even active

People that say it isn't a "security policy" are somewhat correct, but are also naive when it comes to the reality of dealing with nuisance web traffic.

Fail2ban is slightly different in that it is for setting up tripwires for failed email logins, and known web-vulnerability scanners etc. Then whispering that IP ban period to the firewall (must override the default config.)

Finally, if the IP address for some application login session changes more than 5 times an hour, one should also whisper a ban to the firewalls. These IP ban rules are often automatically shared between groups to reduce forum spam, VoIP attacks, and problem users. Popular cloud-based VPN/proxies/Tor-exit-nodes run out of unique IPs faster than most assume.

Have a nice day, =3

Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess at least they're being honest, but I would agree - there's a large delta between Al-assistance and Al-driven, and "vibe coding" is one step further (just accepting everything Al does without critique, so long as it "works"). Great for prototyping, really bad for exposing anything of any value to the internet. (Not Anti-Al, just pro-sensible)

> Great for prototyping I must be Doing It Wrong(TM), because my experience has been pretty negative overall. Is there like a FAQ or a HOWTO or hell even a MAKE.MONEY.FAST floating around that might clue me in?

No. You have just missed the two last steps. Here is the full explanation, and it is the same as it has always been on HN:

1. Make prototype

2. Magic happens here

3. Make lots of $$$

Great for prototyping only makes it easier to get to step 2, but done correctly, it certainly does that.

As proven by the nice app I have running on my laptop, but probably won't make any money from.

Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#77
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not super familiar with the intricacies of fail2ban and don’t currently understand why op made that claim but would very much like to know more because he is talking about a topic he is highly regarded for and I respect that. I just don’t have the context.

Port-knocking mainly mitigates slow distributed-brute-force login attacks, and works best when ports are interleaved with several tripwire black-hole and knock-port-close firewall rules. Use-cases: 1. helps auto-ban hosts doing port-scans or using online vulnerability scanners 2. helps reduce further ingress for a few minutes as the hostile sees the site is "down". Generally, try to waste as much of a problem users t…

If a slow brute force attack is working on your system, all the port knocking and tripwires and whatever are just gimmicks.

Don’t waste resources putting lipstick on the pig.

Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#78
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fail2ban is not in the same realm as port knocking, and to "bin it" would be foolish security posture at best, and negligent at worst.

I’m not super familiar with the intricacies of fail2ban and don’t currently understand why op made that claim but would very much like to know more because he is talking about a topic he is highly regarded for and I respect that. I just don’t have the context.

[deleted]

Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#79
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Port-knocking mainly mitigates slow distributed-brute-force login attacks, and works best when ports are interleaved with several tripwire black-hole and knock-port-close firewall rules. Use-cases: 1. helps auto-ban hosts doing port-scans or using online vulnerability scanners 2. helps reduce further ingress for a few minutes as the hostile sees the site is "down". Generally, try to waste as much of a problem users t…

If a slow brute force attack is working on your system, all the port knocking and tripwires and whatever are just gimmicks. Don’t waste resources putting lipstick on the pig.

Stolen password-less key bots are also common these days, and again it is more about reducing log noise.

"Don’t waste resources putting lipstick on the pig."

I would never kink-shame someone that ignored the recent CVE-2025-48416, that proved exposing unprotected services is naive =3

Re: Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab

#80
The way I see it, port knocking may not be a valid security measure but it can be a good filter. It will allow you to filter out port scanning and other mass cracking attempts.

My opinion is that being able to filter out noise and false positives from authentication logs allows you to improve your actual security measures.

An other advantage is that it may hide information about your system making it harder for an attacker to target you based on a broad scan without doing some (usually detectable) targeted reconnaissance first. For example imagine someone found a 0-day in one of the services behind the port-knock and is scanning for the vulnerable version.

It does however add another cog in the machine that may break.

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