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rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

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Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#71

Post by kragen »

furyofantares wrote: post #15
Pannoniae wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the doc-header of the header! Apologies if I wasn't clear. I just thought the GP zoomed in on the word "-style" in the first line without reading more (it's probably since it's not a full 1.1 implementation, just something which can do enough to shim a good chunk of 1.1 functions so the RL GL1.1 backend can run)

Still, if you post a link to a roughly 5k line raw source file, rather than like, some post about it, roughly nobody is gonna read much of the file before commenting. edit: I stand corrected by the downmods!

This is kind of a systemic problem with HN: all the early comments on anything substantial are necessarily themselves insubstantial because the posters have not had time to read it.

Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#72

Post by krapp »

HelloNurse wrote: post #64
foota wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone who was once a child trying to figure out how to compile and link things to use SDL, I think there's some educational value in letting people make games without having to dive deep into how to use C++ toolchains.

I'd make the opposite argument about educational value. If you learn to compile libraries and programs you have, so to speak, passed an exam: you are ready to "make games" with confidence because you know what you are doing well enough to have no fear of tool complications. What should be minimized is the accidental complication of compiling libraries and programs, for example convoluted build systems and C++ modules…

If you learn to compile libraries and programs, you just learn how to compile libraries and programs. That doesn't teach you anything about how to "make games." It doesn't even make game development significantly easier.

I think the real answer to educating people about making games without the complications of low level programming would be using a framework like Godot or languages like Python or Lua.

Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#74

Post by mkl »

kragen wrote: post #71
furyofantares wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still, if you post a link to a roughly 5k line raw source file, rather than like, some post about it, roughly nobody is gonna read much of the file before commenting. edit: I stand corrected by the downmods!

This is kind of a systemic problem with HN: all the early comments on anything substantial are necessarily themselves insubstantial because the posters have not had time to read it.

Only if it's brand new. Otherwise some people on HN are probably already familiar with it.

Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#75

Post by kragen »

mkl wrote: post #74
kragen wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of a systemic problem with HN: all the early comments on anything substantial are necessarily themselves insubstantial because the posters have not had time to read it.

Only if it's brand new. Otherwise some people on HN are probably already familiar with it.

Yes, that's arguably somewhat true of items like these:

  Go Subtleties You May Not Know (harrisoncramer.me)
  66 points by darccio 5 hours ago | flag | hide | 28 comments

  Evaluating Argon2 Adoption and Effectiveness in Real-World Software (arxiv.org)
  14 points by pregnenolone 3 hours ago | flag | hide | 1 comment

  The Gypsy Life of Robert Louis Stevenson (hudsonreview.com)
  37 points by Caiero 5 hours ago | flag | hide | 5 comments
That is, you might already be familiar with Robert Louis Stevenson's life story, Argon2, or the subtleties of Golang. Even if so, though, you probably won't be familiar with the book review in the current issue of the Hudson Review (of a book that came out last month), Cramer's particular take on those subtleties (which he posted two weeks ago), or even the Argon2 evaluation in the paper (which was posted in April).

I would argue that people posting comments in these threads consisting of only their pre-existing general knowledge of Stevenson and Argon2 are still failing to make substantial contributions to the conversation, because they will tend to repeat pre-existing errors whose correction is the largest contribution of the linked writings, or simply repost the predictable opinions they share with many other people. It's the opposite of the spirit of curious inquiry the site ostensibly seeks to foster.

And the majority of frontpage posts are about things that are in fact brand new:

  Greenland Ditches Starlink for French Satellite Service (dagens.com)
  323 points by saubeidl 4 hours ago | flag | hide | 189 comments
(news reporting from two days ago)

  Knocker, a knock based access control system for your homelab (github.com/fariszr)
  21 points by xlmnxp 2 hours ago | flag | hide | 29 comments
(new software project last month)

  Evaluating the Infinity Cache in AMD Strix Halo (chipsandcheese.com)
  90 points by zdw 6 hours ago | flag | hide | 33 comments
(news reporting from today on performance evaluations using an ASUS sample motherboard not available to the general public)

  Show HN: Cadence – A Guitar Theory App (cadenceguitar.com)
  55 points by apizon 5 hours ago | flag | hide | 8 comments
("Hello HN, I just released this music theory and ear training mobile app" a few weeks ago, with a trademarked name that will certainly have to be changed after a cease & desist)

  MinIO (apparently) becomes source-only (github.com/minio)
  144 points by LexSiga 5 hours ago | flag | hide | 107 comments
(a new release process change in this project from four days ago)

  rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC (github.com/raysan5)
  204 points by fschuett 14 hours ago | unvote | flag | hide | 69 comments
(a new software renderer committed on September 29)

  LLMs can get "brain rot" (llm-brain-rot.github.io)
  395 points by tamnd 20 hours ago | flag | hide | 245 comments
(a new paper published one week ago)

There is nothing substantial that anyone could say about any of these things without reading the article or bug thread or trying the software.

Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#76

Post by pmarin »

ciroduran wrote: post #5

Raylib's author was very happy to announce that you can compile an entire raylib program with no dependencies other than, say, being a win32 app https://x.com/raysan5/status/1980322289527976202

Win32 has already a pretty good opengl 1.2 software renderer.

Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#77

Post by fuhsnn »

bee_rider wrote: post #30
Pannoniae wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, this is CPU rendering only! Not even SIMD, just straightforward integer (and float) code.

It would be kind of neat to have OpenGL running on AVX-512, just for fun…

I believe Mesa's llvmpipe backend can do that to a degree, never tried, though.

Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#78

Post by HelloNurse »

krapp wrote: post #72
HelloNurse wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd make the opposite argument about educational value. If you learn to compile libraries and programs you have, so to speak, passed an exam: you are ready to "make games" with confidence because you know what you are doing well enough to have no fear of tool complications. What should be minimized is the accidental complication of compiling libraries and programs, for example convoluted build systems and C++ modules…

If you learn to compile libraries and programs, you just learn how to compile libraries and programs. That doesn't teach you anything about how to "make games." It doesn't even make game development significantly easier. I think the real answer to educating people about making games without the complications of low level programming would be using a framework like Godot or languages like Python or Lua.

Of course technical concerns aren't directly relevant to making games, but they are still necessary. Productive development means overcoming technical hurdles, not only domain specific challenges.

What if you cannot adopt some library that would do something very useful because you lack the skill integrate or replace CMake or Bazel or Autoconf? Unnecessary technical constraints impact game quality.

What if due to insufficient automation the time between tests after making a very small change is 10 minutes rather than 10 seconds? Reduced productivity impacts game quality.

Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#79

Post by sarchertech »

HelloNurse wrote: post #78
krapp wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you learn to compile libraries and programs, you just learn how to compile libraries and programs. That doesn't teach you anything about how to "make games." It doesn't even make game development significantly easier. I think the real answer to educating people about making games without the complications of low level programming would be using a framework like Godot or languages like Python or Lua.

Of course technical concerns aren't directly relevant to making games, but they are still necessary. Productive development means overcoming technical hurdles, not only domain specific challenges. What if you cannot adopt some library that would do something very useful because you lack the skill integrate or replace CMake or Bazel or Autoconf? Unnecessary technical constraints impact game quality. What if due to ins…

Very useful skills to have. But they don’t need to be learned during the very first lesson on the very first day unless you are trying to filter people out for some reason.

Re: rlsw – Raylib software OpenGL renderer in less than 5k LOC

#80

Post by YesBox »

MrGilbert wrote: post #52
YesBox wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Edit: I missed this was software rendered. I’m one gen-iteration ahead. Prob would still be possible to render my game cpu side provided I use the most efficient sprite depth ordering algorithm possible (my game is isometric pixel art like rollercoaster tycoon) Ha! That’s what I’m stuck with for Metropolis 1998. I have to use the ancient OpenGL fixed function pipeline (thankfully I discovered an AB extension function…

Sidenote: Can't wait for the release!

:) Thanks
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