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Regarding the Compact

president.mit.edu

71–80 of 203 posts

Re: Regarding the Compact

#71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, the Biden Administration's promulgation of a Title IX interpretation that, among other things, would have compelled certain kinds of speech: https://speechfirst.org/case/title-ix/ One example of many: it would have been a punishable offense to refuse to use someone's preferred pronouns.

Are you injured if you can't misgender someone?

Yes, to the extent that any violation of constitution injures me.

Forcing me to say things I don't want to say under threat of punishment violates first amendment. It's been litigated and so concluded.

The fact that it's the 1st amendment indicates that founding fathers thought that it is indeed the greatest injury us government can inflict on us citizens.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#72
post #49

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

Try considering the opposite situation. Suppose Biden or Obama sent a mandate to universities making unilateral and ideologically-motivated demands of their curriculum, policies, and practices. Everyone cool with that scenario? Or, does each new presidential administration get to impose their will on institutions of higher learning? What would that be like?

There was an Obama "Dear Colleague" letter (actually, 3 of them) that I think at least partially qualify as unilateral and ideologically motivated.

Yes, every new administration can attempt to impose their will on institutions of higher learning (so long as the administration has some sort of leverage, like funding or legal threats). The wise administrations limit their imposition, preferring to allow academia to enjoy high levels of freedom, autonomy, and funding to achieve their mission.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#73

Remember, fascism is not an ideology or philosophical idea. It is a system of government. Gaining control of academia is a core part of this system. I applaud MIT for standing up to this. I hope the other universities involved also resist. We'll see.

Given that leftists have gained control of academia, are democrats fascists?

My claim of "leftists control academia" is based on data on political affiliation / donations by staff at major universities which is 80-90% democrats.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#74
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, the expectation is that people will respect boundaries and voluntarily stay out of the single-sex spaces they have no right to be in. So currently, these people have the right to be in these spaces (whether or not you disagree that they should , legally, they do ), the expectation would, I assume, be that people will respect boundaries and not accost people based on assumptions about their genitals. And yet as…

If the policy of MIT or any other institution states that certain spaces are designated as single-sex only, then no, people of the opposite sex do not have the right to use these spaces. I don't expect people to have a problem with understanding this, in practice. It's really not that difficult to understand what sex you are and where you're allowed to be. Children learn this quite early on. (Edit: My account is now…

> If the policy of MIT or any other institution states that certain spaces are designated as single-sex only, then no, people of the opposite sex do not have the right to use these spaces.

Correct, but this is not MIT's policy today, responding to your edit, I do not believe your understanding of title IX is correct, See [0].

>I don't expect people to have a problem with understanding this, in practice. It's really not that difficult to understand what sex you are and where you're allowed to be. Children learn this quite early on.

But in places that do have such policies, people who are using the correct bathroom get harassed. Given that you assume this is easy to understand (and I think I agree), would you support laws that codify harassing people about using the incorrect bathroom as criminal, given that you assume these don't need enforcement, we should discourage vigilantism, right?

[0]: https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/LSB10953 suggests that there is a circuit split on whether policies banning students from using gender-identity matching bathrooms would be a Title IX violation, with the 4th and 7th circuits saying that disallowing students from using their preferred bathrooms is a violation, and the 11th saying it is not. Currently there is no circuit split around the opposite question: the 3rd and 9th (and presumably also the 4th and 7th) circuits agree that allowing students to use gender-identity matching bathrooms would not be a Title IX violation, and the 11th Circuit's argument doesn't appear to preclude to a school or district choosing to allow gender-segregated bathrooms, it just allows sex-segregated bathrooms. MIT is under the 1st circuit and I can't find any federal cases at the district level, so it is technically not required to act in any particular way, but given other circuit precedent (and, I think, supreme court precedent under Bostock which says basically the same thing for title VII), I would suspect your interpretation would open MIT to legal risk.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#75

This seems like a reasonable response by MIT. I’m struggling to understand where the core disagreement lies though. Would someone who is opposed to this “compact” care to explain their view? I’m not interested in baseless name-calling (“fascist” etc) but I am interested in cogent reasoning. I didn’t read the compact itself, but I did read the wikipedia article about it, and it seems to be a very positive set of crite…

Highly suggest reading the document[1] if you are interested.

The overarching problem is it moves management decisions from the colleges to the White House. But here are a couple of really problematic points:

- mandates government price setting

- requires institutions to promise to use force against minors when faced with unknown hypotheticals

- requires universities to monitor & censor staff and faculty

- requires government oversight of classroom grading, in the total absence of government standards

- bathroom fetish likely in conflict with state laws

- White House oversight of which academic programs are allowed, and the budgets attached to each. White House does not specify whether programs currently in flight will be allowed to continue through the school year, or whether students in those programs will need to leave immediately.

- White House decides what criteria can be used for admission

- White House decides which "institutional units" are allowed to function

- To enforce a parts of the Compact would effectively require the White House to install commissars at the institution to e.g. monitor speech and communications to ensure they are acceptable. This alone should be disqualifying.

- Many discretionary decisions like the above are made at the White House without any binding written guidance

Basically, an independent university would only agree to this if it would have to close otherwise.

The Compact is not conservative because it centralizes decisions best made lower down; it aims to radically reshape higher education; it mandates prices; it promulgates ideology, and more. Conservatives should also reject this Compact.

1 - https://www.washingtonpost.com/documents/22e45e59-75ac-4a81-...

Re: Regarding the Compact

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the 2025 Republican party is definitely fascist. Wikipedia: "Fascism is characterized by a dictatorial leader, centralized autocracy, militarism, forcible suppression of opposition, belief in a natural social hierarchy, subordination of individual interests for the perceived interest of the nation or race, and strong regimentation of society and the economy" - Dictatorial leader - President Trump tries to push th…

I like that your ideological counterparts have made the exact same statements about every administration ever. Your post does not carry weight just because it is heavy. When all you have is claims of fascism, everything is a nail. Despite yours or my agreement on the topic of the day, this admin has pushed more power back to states than any in your lifetime. Those sneaky fascists, always giving up power…

It's not wrong just because the same is said by others about others.

The current administration is currently invading multiple states using the US military. That's kind of the opposite of giving power back to states.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#77

From MIT's financials ( https://facts.mit.edu/operating-financials/ ): Operating Revenue: $5.07B, out of which - Federal funding (sponsored support): $2.30B Operating Costs: $4.78B, out of which - Sponsored research expenditure: $2.10B Additionally, they seem to have $24.57B worth of endowed funds and get gifts and pledges of net ~$0.6B every year. Looks like they can wane off their dependence on federal funding if o…

Endowed funds are restricted- the donors can place constraints on how they are spent. They are not fungible and cannot reliably used to pay for a wide range of things that are currently paid for by federal funding.

Personally I would love to see the richest people in the nation contribute a lot more to universities in the form of unrestricted funds, to give these universities some options when it comes to being dependent on federal funding. But I guess you don't get rich by giving unrestricted funds to universities.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming lack of knowledge is the reason authoritarian tendencies show up periodically dismisses the fact that a lot of people think it’s a good thing. There were neo nazis right after wwii. They didn’t forget — they wanted it.

Yeah that worries me. The Nazi party ended on paper, the flags were taken down, but there is no military defeat that really changes the minds of the losing faction. They just went covert, stopped saying the quiet part, and waited.

We won the war but never learned as a group how to handle the ideological problems.

Re: Regarding the Compact

#79
post #18

In a way, the overreach in the compact made this an obvious (though not easy) decision. Obviously, an independent university cannot agree to government-mandated pricing or censorship of faculty members. Similarly, government intrusion into grading practices and proactively threatening to use "lawful force" against minors are immediately off the table. That's all aside from the practicality of ongoing assessment, whic…

> In a way, the overreach in the compact made this an obvious (though not easy) decision.

If you have morals but lack the conviction to stand by them, do you really have morals?

Re: Regarding the Compact

#80
post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No, the expectation is that people will respect boundaries and voluntarily stay out of the single-sex spaces they have no right to be in. So currently, these people have the right to be in these spaces (whether or not you disagree that they should , legally, they do ), the expectation would, I assume, be that people will respect boundaries and not accost people based on assumptions about their genitals. And yet as…

If the policy of MIT or any other institution states that certain spaces are designated as single-sex only, then no, people of the opposite sex do not have the right to use these spaces. I don't expect people to have a problem with understanding this, in practice. It's really not that difficult to understand what sex you are and where you're allowed to be. Children learn this quite early on. (Edit: My account is now…

How do you propose preventing situations such as these?

“The couple said they were in the women's lobby bathroom when a male security guard came in and started banging on the stall doors. Baker said she was in one of the stalls while Victor waited for her near the sinks… Baker was born a woman and identifies as a woman.” [1]

“Gerika Mudra, 18, went to dinner in April with a friend in Owatonna, about an hour south of Minneapolis. When she went to the restroom, a server followed her inside and banged on the stall door while saying: “This is a women’s restroom. The man needs to get out of here,”… Mudra said she felt she had to prove to the server that she is a woman, so she unzipped her hoodie to show she has breasts.” [2]

“Dani Davis was in the women’s restroom at the Walmart where she worked when she heard a man’s voice shouting from outside the stall. The man yelled a slur for transgender people and said he was going to beat them up, Davis said. She was the only person in the bathroom at the Lake City, Florida, store… Davis waited for the man to leave before exiting the bathroom and finishing her shift. Her immediate supervisor was supportive when she reported the incident, she said. So she was shocked and confused when she was fired around a week later for not reporting the incident to the right managers and creating a “security risk.””[3]

“She said that she had entered the restroom with her ex-girlfriend, who handed her a tampon, when two male deputies stormed in, shining flashlights into the stall and demanding she exit. Morton, still using the toilet, was stunned... When she finally exited the stall, she said she lifted her shirt to prove she was not a man, expecting the ordeal to end. Instead, she said one deputy continued to question her appearance, insisting she “looked like a man.””[4]

It would be unfair of me to presume that you believe that all women should wear skirts, keep their hair long, and perhaps shave down any overly square facial bones so as to not invoke any hint of possible masculinity. But if there is a rule in place, then the rule requires methods of being enforced. Expecting women to expose themselves to a security guard or some other investigatory party in order to prove that they should be allowed to pee there is a guaranteed violation of their dignity, whereas the occasional transgender woman using the next stall over is not.

[1]https://www.cbsnews.com/amp/boston/news/women-boston-liberty...

[2] https://www.nbcnews.com/nbc-out/out-news/minnesota-teen-says...

[3] https://www.washingtonpost.com/nation/2025/03/27/walmart-fir...

[4] https://www.advocate.com/news/lesbian-mistaken-transgender-a...

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