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Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

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Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#71
Many years ago I was sitting at a red light on a secondary road, where the primary cross road was idle. It seemed like you could solve this using a computer vision camera system that watched the primary road and when it was idle, would expedite the secondary road's green light.

This was long before computer vision was mature enough to do anything like that and I found out that instead, there are magnetic systems that can detect cars passing over - trivial hardware and software - and I concluded that my approach was just far too complicated and expensive.

Similarly, when I look at computers, I typically want the ML/AI system to operate on a structured data that is codified for computer use. But I guess the world is complicated enough and computers got fast enough that having an AI look at a computer screen and move/click a mouse makes sense.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#73

Interesting, seems to use 'pure' vision and x/y coords for clicking stuff. Most other browser automation with LLMs I've seen uses the dom/accessibility tree which absolutely churns through context, but is much more 'accurate' at clicking stuff because it can use the exact text/elements in a selector. Unfortunately it really struggled in the demos for me. It took nearly 18 attempts to click the comment link on the HN…

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Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#74
post #71

Many years ago I was sitting at a red light on a secondary road, where the primary cross road was idle. It seemed like you could solve this using a computer vision camera system that watched the primary road and when it was idle, would expedite the secondary road's green light. This was long before computer vision was mature enough to do anything like that and I found out that instead, there are magnetic systems that…

It's funny I'll sometimes scoot forward/rock my car but I'm not sure if it's just coincidence. Also a lot of stop lights now have that tall white camera on top.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can navigate a website without visually decoding the image of a website.

Except if its a messy div soup with various shitty absolute and relative pixel offsets where the only way to know what refers to what is by rendering it and using gestalt principles.

None of that matters to neural networks.

Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#76
post #71

Many years ago I was sitting at a red light on a secondary road, where the primary cross road was idle. It seemed like you could solve this using a computer vision camera system that watched the primary road and when it was idle, would expedite the secondary road's green light. This was long before computer vision was mature enough to do anything like that and I found out that instead, there are magnetic systems that…

FWIW those type of traffic cameras are in common use. https://www.milesight.com/company/blog/types-of-traffic-came...

Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#77
post #74
post #71

Many years ago I was sitting at a red light on a secondary road, where the primary cross road was idle. It seemed like you could solve this using a computer vision camera system that watched the primary road and when it was idle, would expedite the secondary road's green light. This was long before computer vision was mature enough to do anything like that and I found out that instead, there are magnetic systems that…

It's funny I'll sometimes scoot forward/rock my car but I'm not sure if it's just coincidence. Also a lot of stop lights now have that tall white camera on top.

Like flashing lights for the first responders sensor

Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We're training natural language models to reason by emulating reasoning in natural language, so it's very on brand.

It's on the brand of stuff that works. Expert systems and formal symbolic if-else, rules based reasoning was tried, it failed. Real life is messy and fat-tailed.

And yet we give agents deterministic tools to use rather than tell them to compute everything in model!

Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

About your self-driving car point, I feel like the approach I'm seeing is akin to designing a humanoid robot that uses its robotic feet to control the brake and accelerator pedals, and its hand to move the gear selector.

Yeah, that would be pretty good honestly. It could immediately upgrade every car ever made to self driving and then it could also do your laundry without buying a new washing machine and everything else. It's just hard to do. But it will happen.

Yes, it sounds very cool and sci-fi, but having a humanoid control the car seems less safe than having the spinning cameras and other sensors that are missing from older cars or those that weren't specifically built to be self-driving. I suppose this is why even human drivers are assisted by automatic emergency braking.

I am more leaning into the idea that an efficient self-driving car wouldn't even need to have a steering wheel, pedals, or thin pillars to help the passengers see the outside environment or be seen by pedestrians.

The way this ties back to the computer use models is that a lot of webpages have stuff designed for humans would make it difficult for a model to navigate them well. I think this was the goal of the "semantic web".

Re: Gemini 2.5 Computer Use model

#80
post #37

I feel like screenshots should be the last thing you reach for. There's a whole universe of data from accessibility subsystems.

and all sorts of situations where they don't work. When they do work it's great, but if they don't and you rely on them, you have nothing.

Oh yeah, using all available data channels in proportion to their cost and utility is the right choice, 100%.
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