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'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

theguardian.com

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Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#71

Post by naasking »

AnEro wrote: post #17

Theres alot of what about women arguments which is fair, but I think it's entirely fair to view this as a harm to men's mental health, and it should be the focus. Right now, we have a societal issue of isolating, vulnerable men. Men have the highest suicide rate, are statistically more likely to commit violent offenses and have a high rate of domestic abuse. 'Incels' who are likely these companies target market have…

> 'Incels' who are likely these companies target market have committed domestic terrorism.

Just FYI, incels are empirically less likely to commit violence than average.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#72

Post by kelseyfrog »

xigoi wrote: post #60
kelseyfrog wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because not being bothered by men is tangential to gender equality and the liberation of women from restrictive gender roles. The original comment confuses the goals of feminism.

Weird. I see things like objectification, catcalling, sexual harassment, rape, etc. being discussed a lot in feminist spaces.

It sounds like you're trying to say feminism is primarily about those things. Is that right?

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#73

Post by xigoi »

naasking wrote: post #70
UncleMeat wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do we have any reason to believe that men using AI as a substitute girlfriend are less likely to do these sorts of things?

> Do we have any reason to believe that men using AI as a substitute girlfriend are less likely to do these sorts of things? Yes, because on aggregate, it entirely eliminates intimate partner violence from this group.

Intimate partner violence is committed only by men who have a partner, so that’s one thing it wouldn’t help with.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#74

Post by xigoi »

kelseyfrog wrote: post #72
xigoi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. I see things like objectification, catcalling, sexual harassment, rape, etc. being discussed a lot in feminist spaces.

It sounds like you're trying to say feminism is primarily about those things. Is that right?

No. They’re just some of the many things that modern feminism is about.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#75

Post by xigoi »

UncleMeat wrote: post #65
xigoi wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Weird. I see things like objectification, catcalling, sexual harassment, rape, etc. being discussed a lot in feminist spaces.

Do we have any reason to believe that men using AI as a substitute girlfriend are less likely to do these sorts of things?

If we assume that the AI is convincing enough to satisfy at least some of them (which is probably not the case currently, but may be in the future), then of course.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#76

Post by thaw13579 »

naasking wrote: post #21
johnea wrote: post #10

The article, and the comments here, ignore the worst problem of "AI girlfriends": the fact that someone could think of images, audio, and text, only seen on a computer screen, as one's "girlfriend". The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. This disconnect from physical reality, and the substitution of a fantasy world for reality, is at the root of…

> The willingness to live in make believe, and the willingness to treat that make believe as if it were reality. Everyone acts on fictions every day, some are just socially acceptable. Like, do you think countries and currency really exist, or are they really just collective fictions we find useful?

This use of the term "fiction" is mostly popularized by Yuval Noah Harari, and while correct in some sense, I find it tends to favor its meanings of falseness and unreality. Another more widely used term is "social constructs", which seems preferable, at least to me, because it's emphasizes that we are building something together, which has real and practice impacts on people's lives, often through explicit legal agreements, rules, and norms.

I do think the more common usage of the term "fiction" fits these AI uses much better, that is, literature involving imaginary things. It can still evoke real feelings and nudge you towards certain behaviors, but importantly, if you decide to ignore the chatbot, there's no risk of imprisonment by some 3rd party (like if you ignore the social constructs of taxes or national borders).

Perhaps one way to differentiate these is that "singular fictions" impose no obligations to 3rd parties, while "collective fictions" / "social constructs" do?

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#77

Post by naasking »

xigoi wrote: post #73
naasking wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do we have any reason to believe that men using AI as a substitute girlfriend are less likely to do these sorts of things? Yes, because on aggregate, it entirely eliminates intimate partner violence from this group.

Intimate partner violence is committed only by men who have a partner, so that’s one thing it wouldn’t help with.

You're assuming that only men who couldn't get a partner would be lured away by these AI girlfriends. This assumption is incorrect, thus my original argument stands.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#78

Post by hn_throw_bs »

Animats wrote: post #6

That's playing on easy mode. There are AI girlfriend systems like this: Lian Mei's smile froze, a crack in her porcelain mask. Her gaze flicked to the other dancer—a doe-eyed newcomer trembling near the roulette wheel. A low hum vibrated in her throat, a 1930s jazz refrain she used when venom needed sweetening. "Her?" She turned back to Joe, stepping close enough for her silk to brush his leather jacket. "She'll cry…

That is so cringe, my goodness.

Re: 'Obedient, yielding and happy to follow': the troubling rise of AI girlfriends

#79

Post by hn_throw_bs »

general1465 wrote: post #52
atmavatar wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Historically, it's been the case that a relatively small percentage of men have monopolized the available women of their time. Perhaps the most famous example of this was Genghis Khan, to whom something like 1 in 12 men in Asia and 1 in 200 men globally carry Y chromosomes linked to him. It is only somewhat recently that many first-world societies moved towards more egalitarian, monogamous marriages. However, dating…

> Historically, it's been the case that a relatively small percentage of men have monopolized the available women of their time. Perhaps the most famous example of this was Genghis Khan, to whom something like 1 in 12 men in Asia and 1 in 200 men globally carry Y chromosomes linked to him. Bible (2000 years old) is heavily pushing monogamistic relationship from a simple practical reason - horny man is angry man, angr…

That’s why the stories of genghis khan seem like bullshit to me.
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