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Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

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Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#71

Post by nickslaughter02 »

AAAAaccountAAAA wrote: post #67
nickslaughter02 wrote: post #31

I think many outside of EU dismiss this as an EU only thing and don't think much about it. 1. Have you ever texted someone from EU? You are now chat controlled too. 2. EU is pumping billions to foreign countries to promote EU values. How long until they condition this "help" with chat control?

It's definitely not an EU only thing. China, Russia and such have been doing this for years. There have been attempts to introduce it in US (EARN IT Act) as well, and the current regime there might very well end up doing that. Australia has also been pretty authoritarian what it comes to this kind of things.

I don't understand your response and the downvotes. I'm saying Chat Control will spread to other countries. I'm aware of attempts from other countries. Add France and Sweden to your list.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#72

Post by ktallett »

layer8 wrote: post #40
quotemstr wrote: post #30

I've been wondering how Chat Control's proponents settled on such a comically villainous name for their project. They didn't even bother being Orwellian. Skeletor could have have come up with "Chat Control"

It’s the critics who named it Chat Control. The official name is Regulation to Prevent and Combat Child Sexual Abuse (Child Sexual Abuse Regulation, or CSAR). Let’s hope there will be enough Brutuses.

The next official name will be to prevent and combat terrorism, then the next proposal after that will be to prevent and combat child sexual abuse again, then the one after that will be to prevent and combat terrorism, then the one after that will be to prevent and combat child sexual abuse again..... and well you get the gist of that.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#73

Post by ls612 »

oytis wrote: post #60
rlpb wrote: post #53

How does this fit with Apple's pushback against the UK government's encryption backdoor efforts against them? Why aren't Apple also pushing back against this EU initiative?

I thought Apple already voluntary implemented it on their devices?

Apple briefly proposed something similar but then reversed course pretty quickly and has unequivocally stated that it was a poorly thought out idea when they proposed it.

I'd have to assume that Apple and WhatsApp are taking a more behind the scenes approach on this and that they too would leave the EU if it came to it. Both of their messenger brands are so fundamentally tied to E2EE that its hard to imagine them thinking its worth it to stay and break their encryption.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#74

Post by jhoho »

killparty wrote: post #5

Handle jetzt: https://chat-kontrolle.eu/index.php/2025/10/02/der-kampf-geg... Info: https://netzpolitik.org/2025/eu-ueberwachungsplaene-die-chat... "Wichtige Stimmen wie Amnesty International, Reporter ohne Grenzen und der Chaos Computer Club appellieren eindringlich an die Bundesregierung, die Chatkontrolle zu verhindern. Sie warnen vor einem Angriff auf die Pressefreiheit, einem IT-Sicherheitsalptraum und einer Gef…

https://fightchatcontrol.eu/

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#75

Post by godelski »

some_random wrote: post #58
Netcob wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some more recent crimes against society and humanity, I'd also compare it to Stasi. Plenty of people alive today who lived with that. Around 1 in 30 people was secretly telling on their neighbors. After unification, it was presented as a dark chapter in German history that had finally come to an end. People would get to look into their own "file" to see what and how much had been written about their daily activit…

The trouble is that the Stasi are not seen in as negative of a light as the Gestapo.

In Germany?

I'm not German but the German people I do know don't see them positively. But could be selection bias

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#76

Post by tonyedgecombe »

throw_a_grenade wrote: post #21

I'm sorry to pick non-technical details, but this PDF is typeset on „Letter” paper, which is immediately noticeable (different aspect ratio). Normally it's on „yeah, whatever” level, but since this paper (sic) aims to influence European policy, now this detail is actually important. This whole piece reeks „I'm an 1) outsider that 2) couldn't be bothered to get to know local culture so 3) probably has no stake in the…

It’s a malicious attack, right now thousands of printers around Brussels are stuck with the message “PC Load Letter”.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#77

Post by nickslaughter02 »

ls612 wrote: post #73
oytis wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Apple already voluntary implemented it on their devices?

Apple briefly proposed something similar but then reversed course pretty quickly and has unequivocally stated that it was a poorly thought out idea when they proposed it. I'd have to assume that Apple and WhatsApp are taking a more behind the scenes approach on this and that they too would leave the EU if it came to it. Both of their messenger brands are so fundamentally tied to E2EE that its hard to imagine them thi…

Apple has sold out their Chinese users. Why would it not do the same for EU?

https://www.reuters.com/article/technology/apple-moves-to-st...

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#78

Post by lawn »

IlikeKitties wrote: post #20
guywithahat wrote: post #6

> Under the guise of protecting children, the latest Chat Control proposals would require mass scanning of every message, photo, and video on a person’s device, assessing these via a government-mandated database or AI model to determine whether they are permissible content or not. This is pretty terrifying, although not unexpected. Given Germany's aggressive crackdown on speech I wouldn't feel too optimistic. If the…

German speaking here: People here in Germany do not want to think about just how bad our constitution really is designed. We only get free speech lte, There's no fruit of the poisonous tree doctrine leading to constant prosecutorial overreach and illegal searches[0] that are later ruled illegal but with on effect and our public prosecutors are so much lacking in independence that they aren't allowed to issue european…

> People here in Germany do not want to think about just how bad our constitution really is designed.

I think that's exactly the same as in the US.

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#79

Post by dvngnt_ »

nickslaughter02 wrote: post #77
ls612 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Apple briefly proposed something similar but then reversed course pretty quickly and has unequivocally stated that it was a poorly thought out idea when they proposed it. I'd have to assume that Apple and WhatsApp are taking a more behind the scenes approach on this and that they too would leave the EU if it came to it. Both of their messenger brands are so fundamentally tied to E2EE that its hard to imagine them thi…

Apple has sold out their Chinese users. Why would it not do the same for EU? https://www.reuters.com/article/technology/apple-moves-to-st...

China market is much more lucrative and harder to enter

Re: Germany must stand firmly against client-side scanning in Chat Control [pdf]

#80

Post by nextos »

thadt wrote: post #42
kekqqq wrote: post #4

No one should remove from us the right to privacy in chat rooms. Otherwise, PGP might become cool again, or I bet that there will be new ways to chat without mass surveillance.

How would PGP help in the long run? If client side scanning is mandated for everything then the natural place for it to wind up is in the OS. Once your OS is scanning all the things, your privacy is finished - pretty good or otherwise.

In fact, proprietary OSes already phone home so often it's just mind blowing. On the mobile camp, only GrapheneOS and niche Linux distributions like SailfishOS are quiet if you inspect network traffic. The tools for client-side scanning are there, it's quite easy to implement total control.
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