Social anxiety isn't about being liked • Hacker News Board

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#71

Post by wizzwizz4 » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:48 PM UTC

xivzgrev wrote: post #49

cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

That's astute. I was always uncomfortable with this kind of joking. I felt threatened. The real reason was that I didn't have a good comeback. Let's say my nose was large, and a friend jokes about it. I need to say something back. And I could not think of anything. A low stakes situation becomes higher stakes than it needs to be. So on their side they see me struggle and probably feel bad, so they don't do it again.…

> And I could not think of anything.

I've identified two approaches to this situation. One is to take the insult graciously, as though it's feedback:

"Careful: you could put someone's eye out with that!"

"Oh! Thanks for the reminder." (adjust the position of your head, as appropriate for your extremely large and dangerous nose)

---

The other is to take whatever they said, and exaggerate it. This produces really good comebacks. (It's important to insist upon this point, regardless of any evidence you might receive to the contrary.)

"Careful: you could put someone's eye out with that!"

"Oh, could I? Well, your entire face is bad."

If they respond with another insult, repeat the same strategy. They'll notice what you're doing after the second or third attempt, and then it will turn from "this person's bad at comebacks" into "this person's (pretending to be) bad at comebacks and it's funny".

"My face is bad? Is that the best you could come up with?"

"Your face is so bad that it makes everyone else's faces bad, too."

"But… that means your face is also bad."

"And whose fault is that? It's your fault. Specifically, the fault of your face. Which is bad."

"Still means you've got a big nose."

"Well you've got a small nose."

"No I don't. We've got the same sized noses."

"Thus invalidating your previous aspersion that my nose is unusually large. Who's bad at comebacks now?"

"Still you."

---

There's a third approach, if the insult is disguised as faux-concern: pretend you're taking it seriously, while exaggerating the characteristic they're concerned about.

"Hey, you having trouble seeing past that, mate?"

"Oh, no, it's alright: most of my vision is unobstructed." / "I've got some tape in my bag if I need it." / "It's no worse than binoculars."

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#72

Post by boogieknite » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:51 PM UTC

xivzgrev wrote: post #49

cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

That's astute. I was always uncomfortable with this kind of joking. I felt threatened. The real reason was that I didn't have a good comeback. Let's say my nose was large, and a friend jokes about it. I need to say something back. And I could not think of anything. A low stakes situation becomes higher stakes than it needs to be. So on their side they see me struggle and probably feel bad, so they don't do it again.…

when i dont have a comeback i simply say, "oh no ive been owned" or something similar. the toxic male environment social equivalent of brushing yourself off and standing back up. lets them get whatever they needed from the exchange but also signals theyre not going to get a big reaction from you if they happen to be 100% bully

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#73

Post by seemaze » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:51 PM UTC

>There's this popular idea that socially anxious folks are just dying to be liked

Really? I've never come across that idea. If fact, in my experience 'social anxiety' is almost always driven by the fear of failure, not the ambition of uncertain success.

I would counter that the opposite of 'social anxiety' - 'social vanity' - is more indicative of a deep desire to be liked.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#74

Post by keernan » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:52 PM UTC

I've struggled with social anxiety for years. Just yesterday I discovered that I am unable to visualize mental images such as faces (aphantasia).

I have always struggled in social settings where I people will be attending whom I've met on multiple but infrequent prior occasions - and I will recognize that I know them from somewhere but will be unable to place them or their name.

This has happened for 40 years when I see my wife's cousins at funerals every 2-3 years (but otherwise never see them). They are so friendly and nice. Smiling and hugging me. But they have to realize that I am never able to use their name because I can't remember it - nor am I able to make inquiries about work or life because I remember nothing about them.

The same happens when I, as a middle manager, travel for multiple day business trips to the home office.

It is incredibly embarrassing which causes me to avoid such settings which in turn makes me seem aloof and unfriendly.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#75

Post by blueflow » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:52 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #12

cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

Perhaps this is controversial, but I think this is a mostly male way of expressing affection. Women observing this sometimes conclude that men are horribly cruel to each other.

I know both kinds of people, men, women and kids. Its a thing that is nurtured across generations and different for each family and not that much gender-specific.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#76

Post by boogieknite » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:52 PM UTC

wizzwizz4 wrote: post #71

xivzgrev wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's astute. I was always uncomfortable with this kind of joking. I felt threatened. The real reason was that I didn't have a good comeback. Let's say my nose was large, and a friend jokes about it. I need to say something back. And I could not think of anything. A low stakes situation becomes higher stakes than it needs to be. So on their side they see me struggle and probably feel bad, so they don't do it again.…

> And I could not think of anything. I've identified two approaches to this situation. One is to take the insult graciously, as though it's feedback: "Careful: you could put someone's eye out with that!" "Oh! Thanks for the reminder." (adjust the position of your head, as appropriate for your extremely large and dangerous nose) --- The other is to take whatever they said, and exaggerate it. This produces really good…

the jerk store called

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#77

Post by bananalychee » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

I think the premise, backed up by a couple of random tweets, is questionable, but glossing over that, the conclusion is more or less "just be yourself and you'll have more success". Maybe. But I feel like it's pinning social anxiety purely on neurotic safety-seeking behavior, which is superficial. Surely generalized social anxiety is an unhealthy over-correction, but some personality types have inherently more success socially than others, or in blunt terms, some people are more likeable than others. If you're socially compatible with 90% of the population, it's not hard to ignore the 10% you don't meld with, but swap the numbers and the negative feedback will be overwhelming and makes the majority of social interactions anxiety-inducing. I guess that's why the anonymous Internet is full of disagreeable people.

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#78

Post by hdseggbj » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

BurningFrog wrote: post #12

cortesoft wrote: post #3

I hadn’t heard the word countersignaling before, but it matches something I had observed many years ago. My closest groups of friends always make so much fun of each other. We make negative comments about the worst traits about each other, the things that we are most self-conscious about… yet every time my friends make fun of me for something I worry about, I actually feel better and more comfortable with myself. Whe…

Perhaps this is controversial, but I think this is a mostly male way of expressing affection. Women observing this sometimes conclude that men are horribly cruel to each other.

There's a fine line between teasing, which can build up a person, and degradation designed to destroy self esteem. It's also easy to dismiss that degradation as "I'm just teasing. You're too sensitive. "

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#79

Post by rhcom2 » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:55 PM UTC

abxyz wrote: post #47

The problem with using clinical phrases to describe normal behavior is demonstrated in this post. "Social anxiety" has a specific clinical meaning that is not covered by this post. The post is actually discussing a very natural and rational nervousness that normal people have in social situations. The post is providing a way of thinking about that nervousness that can help reduce it, for the nervous person's benefit,…

> You will be depressed after your beloved pet dies.

You'll experience *grief* after a pet dies. We've pathologizing grief to a point that it makes it harder for those experiencing both grief and depression, two separate (but sometimes linked) human conditions.

https://undark.org/2022/07/21/the-hidden-dangers-of-patholog...

Re: Social anxiety isn't about being liked

#80

Post by immibis » Fri, Oct 03, 2025, 5:59 PM UTC

brad0 wrote: post #45

I've been reading through the book The Courage to be Disliked recently. I'm not a big fan of the writing style of the book, but some of the ideas in the book appear in this post too. One of the concepts in the book is being comfortable with being disliked. If instead you're trying to avoid being disliked, you're effectively subject to other people's whims. When you look at it from that perspective, that's a pretty st…

IDK, in my experience not avoiding being disliked only results in a lot of people disliking me, but hasn't brought any gains, unless a rate limit on HN is a gain (they say I'm "too ideological", whatever that means)