Our efforts, in part, define us • Hacker News Board

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#71

Post by Cthulhu_ » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:21 PM UTC

nuancebydefault wrote: post #46

bsenftner wrote: post #9

Maybe this is a neurodivergent thing, but I have, as long as I can remember, always had the following progression in my mind: "What are you doing? No, that's this situation's name, what is this really?" and I'd continue a few times seeking the "larger problem, the more basic problem being solved" that whatever I was doing "really is". That "basic problem" was "communicating" far more frequently than I expected, and t…

Indeed. If we SW developers define ourselves as 'coders', we could easily end up into this identity crisis which the article seems to refer to. But in fact we are much more than that. We are problem solvers and a big part of it is understanding, defining and refining the problem itself and in finding an elegant solution. The meaningfulness comes from all the communication and experimenting involved with that process,…

This is the frustrating part of software engineering too; the coding itself is the "boring" part, but for me and many others it's also the most fun and gratifying part, the thing you really want to be doing. Something to grow out of I suppose, but still.

The AI vendors want to sell to upper management that that part is what's slowing their company down or costing a lot of money, but I don't think it's that. And in a few years (or now already), AI tooling will probably be an accepted part of the toolchain, but software engineers will always be necessary.

Cobol said you won't need coders anymore because it's basically English. Dreamweaver and Frontpage said you won't need to know HTML because you can just build a website by clicking and typing. No-code platforms said you won't need coders anymore because you can just click and drag. AI evangelists say you don't need coders anymore because you just type in a prompt and working software comes out.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#72

Post by slaterbug » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:22 PM UTC

anovikov wrote: post #23

slaterbug wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't program at all now? It's all generated? I only ask because I find myself on the tools most of the time still. The difference in how different people experience this tech is astounding sometimes.

I debug a lot. LLM tools still can't figure how to use a debugger. That's about it. I'm sure they will soon.

Scary.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#73

Post by 1970-01-01 » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:24 PM UTC

hermannj314 wrote: post #63

The people convincing you it is a virtue to move fast always happen to be selling a car. Be careful that you aren't optimizing your life in response to someone else's marketing campaign.

Hesitation is another side of the bad decision coin. Good decisions are lost due to overanalysis. Charlie Munger: "A lot of opportunities in life tend to last a short while, due to some temporary inefficiency."

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#74

Post by darepublic » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:25 PM UTC

Some friction required for enjoyment. AI too slippery a lubricant

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#75

Post by dostick » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:30 PM UTC

darepublic wrote: post #74

Some friction required for enjoyment. AI too slippery a lubricant

You can always squeeze tighter. Or find tighter place to apply the effort.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#76

Post by tolerance » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:34 PM UTC

mallowdram wrote: post #58

tolerance wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The loss of self that comes with being effectively severed from society through labor exclusion is…a radical process. I read in a book titled The Technology Trap about how in the past, rulers withheld technological advancements and gave strategic deference to the people whose labor would be most affected by them, so as it not put their own necks at risk. That doesn’t seem to be a concern today.

The AI debacle is unusual as it's alive in disinformation at a scale that penetrates every status class. Of course AI is a failure of imagination. But so were symbols, which cannot reference, they can only represent, if at all. The real function of AI appears to be the transition away from symbols, metaphors, folk science cause and effect ideation. We're only barely sensing this, but if you listen to Gary Marcus, Ric…

Curious what your take on this piece might be. I recommend the last 1/3 of it if you’re pressed for time or wits.

https://hedgehogreview.com/issues/lessons-of-babel/articles/...

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#77

Post by slaterbug » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:35 PM UTC

xandrius wrote: post #61

makerofthings wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I became a programmer because I like to write code. Having an llm write code for me is like building a robot that eats cake.

You can still write code without AI. But for people who actually have the goal of solving problems they can now solve much more problems!

That’s a nice prospect. What worries me is the point at which I’m no longer a required part of the problem solving process.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#78

Post by getpokedagain » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:46 PM UTC

raddan wrote: post #26

falcor84 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> never looked back Obviously there are very many Amish people who leave their communities to join the modern world - according to various sources this attrition seems to be between 15-25%. And even amongst those who stay, it's likely that a central reason is the fear of excommunication/shunning, rather than an inherent desire to reject modern technology.

It’s worth mentioning that the Amish aside, there are many groups of people who understand that work has to be done, but do it in a way that elevates the idea that humans can seek transcendence through work. The Shaker communities in my part of the US come to mind. They were not anti-technology by any stretch of the imagination. But they did care about work’s role in being a part of a whole. There are still remnants…

I vaguely recall a childhood acquaintance who was from a shaker family and they had a computer. I'm very tempted to look them up and see their take on computing and ai. Thanks for the memory stir.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#79

Post by hn_throw_250926 » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:48 PM UTC

This was written by a dev so it has the usual hallmarks of ascribing some anecdote to a generalized statement about people, their life’s purpose and so on. Take it with a grain of salt.

Re: Our efforts, in part, define us

#80

Post by falcor84 » Wed, Oct 01, 2025, 1:50 PM UTC

hn_throw_250926 wrote: post #79

This was written by a dev so it has the usual hallmarks of ascribing some anecdote to a generalized statement about people, their life’s purpose and so on. Take it with a grain of salt.

What does this have to do with devs? Isn't all writing personal at its core?