What's the backstory here?
Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
71–80 of 735 posts
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
If you do business in a country you have to operate under that country's laws and regulations, regardless of where you are registered. Most commonly it's the EU fining American tech for GDPR violations and related privacy shenanigans.
Right, but the UK is saying they'll fine Imgur even after Imgur blocked access. At that point, what tooth does the fine have? "You must pay this fine if you want to, err, nothing I guess"?
They're only threatening to fine them for previous violations of the law, not anything after they block access. Blocking access doesn't make the existing fine from when they were doing business in the UK go away, it just prevents future fines.
Whether they can collect the money while Imgur aren't doing business in the UK is a different argument, but it's not particularly controversial that a country can fine a business operating in its jurisdiction for violating that country's laws. Even if those laws are authoritarian bullshit.
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#73Earlier quoted context omitted.
They used to have UK legal presence, and planning to move out. The UK is saying something like "crimes done during your presence won't be ignored". If Imgur never had UK presence, then yeah there would be no teeth. But if you're doing business in a country you can't break the law then leave and expect them to just ignore what you did during that time.
…but how enforceable would the fine be? They pull out and have no UK assets to seize.
> They pull out and have no UK assets to seize.
How do you expect the "pull out" to happen? They must have had a UK bank account or similar, whose transfers won't get approved as they're trying to escape from criminal prosecution. Or they'll work with the US to ensure responsible individuals are held responsible.
It isn't exactly the first time someone/something commits crime in a country then try to escape, there is lots of ways to work with others on this.
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
It's not specific to the UK: many developed countries are cracking down on Internet businesses. There's going to be an awful lot of regulation, and it will be incompatible between different countries. The one-model-fits-the-whole-world style of business is over: you're going to be confined to national borders again. The opinion polls are clear: the normies want this.
Where do you get your conclusion from?
If you mean the opinion polls, I don't have any to hand, but there have been a few articles submitted to /r/ukpolitics since the Online Safety Act took effect detailing opinion polls showing that the UK Government's regulation of internet content has been well-received by the wider public (although the userbase of that subreddit has vociferously disagreed).
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#75How is one country able to fine businesses in other countries? What legal authority or ability do they have to do anything?
Being a country means you can make your own laws so the authority question has a pretty clear answer. Unless you disaviow national borders and state power and such stuff generally of course. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sovereignty
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#76What's the backstory here?
UK passed an insanely stupid and dangerous (as well as authoritarian) act called Online Safety Act.
It's essentially because of shitty parents allowing kids unsupervised access to the internet, rather than expecting parents to parent they pushed the cost/risk to companies.
Imgur decided they didn't want to foot the cost/risk and pulled out.
As a brit, I don't blame them, if I was US based I'd geoblock the UK as well.
Not least because it's the only way this will make enough of a stink for the gov to climb down.
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#77Earlier quoted context omitted.
Right, but the UK is saying they'll fine Imgur even after Imgur blocked access. At that point, what tooth does the fine have? "You must pay this fine if you want to, err, nothing I guess"?
There are various international economic laws, treaties and agreements between cooperating countries, whether or not any of them cover this scenario for to US, and whether the US would honour any agreement in the current political climate remains to be seen. But there are mechanisms in place that allow w the UK to reach US companies through each others legal systems to a degree and vice versa, regardless of asset loc…
> whether the US would honour any agreement in the current political climate remains to be seen
That this is even a question is bananas to me. Isn't that handled by the judicial system rather than involving politics/the administration? Shouldn't be possible for the US to have a treaty, and there are questions about if the treaty will actually be enforced or not, how could anyone trust the US as a whole for anything if those aren't enforced?
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#78This is a shame, Imgur was a good source of fun. I understand what's the reason behind this decision, the current "implementation" of the Online Safety Act is the worst way to handle this problem. Unfortunately I can't see any way that can be reasonably implemented to check the age of the user.
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#79What's the backstory here?
UK passed an insanely stupid and dangerous (as well as authoritarian) act called Online Safety Act. It's essentially because of shitty parents allowing kids unsupervised access to the internet, rather than expecting parents to parent they pushed the cost/risk to companies. Imgur decided they didn't want to foot the cost/risk and pulled out. As a brit, I don't blame them, if I was US based I'd geoblock the UK as well.…
> because of shitty parents allowing kids unsupervised access to the internet
>90% of parents allow their kids unsupervised access to the internet. That's reality. We've spent the last 30 years begging them to supervise and it hasn't worked, so proposing to do it again is a nonstarter.
On the other hand, I completely get why. Expecting parents to know how to operate Windows, Mac, ChromeOS, iOS, Android, Nintendo, PlayStation, Xbox, ChatGPT, and school-issued devices is absurd, delusional, obviously never happening. CompTIA A+ Certification, for entry-level help desk work, requires learning about less platforms than what a parent faces. Even then, what about the computers that have minimal filtering at school libraries, or at friend's houses?
Denial of the kids on the internet as a problem, combined with unfair expectations on parents, is how we got here.
Re: Imgur pulls out of UK as data watchdog threatens fine
#80Earlier quoted context omitted.
But its still not the UK government's decision. They don't have sovereignty over other nations, as much as they'd like to think they do. All they can legally do is bitch and moan and order UK ISPs to block. There's no action they can legally take against Imgur.
The US does exert its laws extraterritorially when there is a sufficient nexus to US interests too. Why wouldn't the UK be allowed to do so?
The US also has outsized influence in this arena due to the USD being the world reserve currency. Which isn't to say that might makes right, but it's easier to get your way when you can dictate the terms by which banks and nations can interface with the global economy. The British pound doesn't have quite the same level of soft power, so it must be wielded more strategically to avoid completely losing that which it still possesses.
I don't imagine going after Imgur would be a worthwhile exercise of that soft power.