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Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

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Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#71
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with kerchunk-a-wheels and real pushbuttons (and the not-smarts they imply) is that they're expensive. They're more expensive (and more failure-prone) than the rotary encoders, mush-buttons, and brain-boxes that replaced them. But one cool part about things like motorized kerchunk-a-wheels is that, upon failure, a motivated person on Gilligan's Island can often mend them back into service with a screwdriv…

But these are [often] thousand dollar appliances. "Capacitive buttons are cheaper" shouldn't be a factor. It's hard to understand why companies can't build things to last, use real buttons, provide parts for servicing at cost, add local APIs for anything "smart", forgo any secondary income streams (eg screens showing ads), and still make a profit .

> It's hard to understand why companies can't build things to last, use real buttons, provide parts for servicing at cost, add local APIs for anything "smart", forgo any secondary income streams (eg screens showing ads), and still make a profit.

It isn't that hard to understand. They can. They just choose not to, because success isn't defined by profits anymore. It's now defined by profit growth. The only ethical way to achieve that is to capture more market through relentless innovation and diversification. But that's impractical in a large corporation due to creeping inefficiency - it's a negative feedback loop. So they try the alternatives like:

a. seek rent on products they've already sold, even if there's no reason for it to be under a subscription (eg: heated car seats),

b. deliberately shortening the life of products (planned obsolescence), so that the consumer is forced to upgrade frequently

c. kill the concept of repair and reuse, forcing the consumer to spend even more frequently

d. sell your attention or data to interested third parties (ads)

e. gatekeep advanced or sometimes even basic access to your devices behind a paywall

f. and more.

Remember how HP's CEO said that those customers who don't take their subscription services are 'bad investments'? That's their attitude towards consumers now. We're no longer their esteemed customers. We're just cash cows for them to squeeze ever more tightly for our every last penny and drops of blood.

To summarize all the above in two words - 'insatiable greed'. But what worries me is how far they'll take it. What next? Washing machines that will hold your clothes hostage until you wire them a service fee? Lock you out of your home amenities like AC and power supply if they think yourey a racist? (This has happened already.) Robotic vacuum cleaners that follow you around and record you to recommend the number of contraceptives you should stock at home? Or mandatory heated toilet seats that will test your body wastes so that medical insurance companies can decide your premium?

Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#72
post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with kerchunk-a-wheels and real pushbuttons (and the not-smarts they imply) is that they're expensive. They're more expensive (and more failure-prone) than the rotary encoders, mush-buttons, and brain-boxes that replaced them. But one cool part about things like motorized kerchunk-a-wheels is that, upon failure, a motivated person on Gilligan's Island can often mend them back into service with a screwdriv…

But these are [often] thousand dollar appliances. "Capacitive buttons are cheaper" shouldn't be a factor. It's hard to understand why companies can't build things to last, use real buttons, provide parts for servicing at cost, add local APIs for anything "smart", forgo any secondary income streams (eg screens showing ads), and still make a profit .

> "Capacitive buttons are cheaper" shouldn't be a factor.

"Capacitive buttons" are implemented and tested together with the software. Real buttons need a PCB and maybe some wires and connectors which must be assembled, tested, reliability tested (aging, vibrations). It _is_ more expensive.

Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#73
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can we keep the happy sunshiny tune it plays when it completes the job?

No. That was the first thing I disabled on my washing machine. I want it to be less intrusive and irritating not more.

Genuine people personalities /s

Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#74
post #50

I just want normal buttons and dials back. Not time-based capacitance buttons that take 5.02 seconds to activate, not 5.0 seconds; nor free-spinning encoder wheels that mandate you give it a jiggle before the washer does anything, even if it's already on the setting you want. I want kachunk-a-chunk back first. Then we can decide if it needs smarts.

The problem with kerchunk-a-wheels and real pushbuttons (and the not-smarts they imply) is that they're expensive. They're more expensive (and more failure-prone) than the rotary encoders, mush-buttons, and brain-boxes that replaced them. But one cool part about things like motorized kerchunk-a-wheels is that, upon failure, a motivated person on Gilligan's Island can often mend them back into service with a screwdriv…

I don’t buy the “more failure-prone” thing if “failure” is defined correctly. Here’s my comparison:

1. Assorted old appliances I have experience with. I have washer and dryer buttons (possibly the last LG model that had them, purchased quite deliberately) working flawlessly after quite a few years, and I have experience with some high-end old dishwashers that had absolutely perfect button performance for about 20 years.

I can compare this to new high end dishwashers where turning the thing on requires triggering a capacitive power button that is very very hard to trigger deliberately even with completely dry fingers. I’ve seen two different related models of this unit with the same problem - they are effectively “failed” almost immediately. Never mind that these dishwashers react to anyone leaning gently against them.

So my score is: near 0% failure rate for mechanical buttons and near 100% for capacitive sensors.

(Even the really nice capacitive sensors on nice phones and watches don’t work well under kitchen conditions, so I’m not sure this problem is fully solvable even with more expensive capacitive buttons.)

Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#76
post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But these are [often] thousand dollar appliances. "Capacitive buttons are cheaper" shouldn't be a factor. It's hard to understand why companies can't build things to last, use real buttons, provide parts for servicing at cost, add local APIs for anything "smart", forgo any secondary income streams (eg screens showing ads), and still make a profit .

> "Capacitive buttons are cheaper" shouldn't be a factor. "Capacitive buttons" are implemented and tested together with the software. Real buttons need a PCB and maybe some wires and connectors which must be assembled, tested, reliability tested (aging, vibrations). It _is_ more expensive.

I'm not questioning whether or not capacitive buttons are cheaper, I just don't believe they make the difference between profit and loss.

How many more sacrifices must consumers make to increase margins?

Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#77
post #46
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. That was the first thing I disabled on my washing machine. I want it to be less intrusive and irritating not more.

was this a UI option or did you have to fix it with wire cutters? mine is mildly irritating.

Joking aside, for my old LG washer/dryer there was some kind of baroque incantation buried in user manual to turn the sound.

Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#78

How to measure the internet usage of a specific appliance? By installing a sniffer in the router, or is there another way?

Good routers show usage by device. I don't know, why the sibling answer is dead, but ubiquity routers seem to have this feature. Mikrotik and keenetic are other routers, that are capable of that. Maybe recent Fritzbox routers too.

On Fritzbox you need to enable it for each device individually. Good thing I saw this post, as I wanted to check out what some of my appliances are doing and enabled it for a few of them a month ago.

Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#79
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But these are [often] thousand dollar appliances. "Capacitive buttons are cheaper" shouldn't be a factor. It's hard to understand why companies can't build things to last, use real buttons, provide parts for servicing at cost, add local APIs for anything "smart", forgo any secondary income streams (eg screens showing ads), and still make a profit .

> It's hard to understand why companies can't build things to last, use real buttons, provide parts for servicing at cost, add local APIs for anything "smart", forgo any secondary income streams (eg screens showing ads), and still make a profit . It isn't that hard to understand. They can. They just choose not to, because success isn't defined by profits anymore. It's now defined by profit growth . The only ethical w…

> It isn't that hard to understand. They can.

What's hard to to understand is how we allow them. How the market hasn't seen an opening; why someone else hasn't started making machines to fill these niches.

There are so many pro-consumer ideas (I've only listed a few) that a company could seize upon to market themselves. And unlike pocket consumer-electronics, there's little barrier to entry. You don't need to reinvent anything (quite the opposite).

Re: Homeowner baffled after washing machine uses 3.6GB of internet data a day (2024)

#80

I just want normal buttons and dials back. Not time-based capacitance buttons that take 5.02 seconds to activate, not 5.0 seconds; nor free-spinning encoder wheels that mandate you give it a jiggle before the washer does anything, even if it's already on the setting you want. I want kachunk-a-chunk back first. Then we can decide if it needs smarts.

>> I just want normal buttons and dials back

There are washing machines without any screens, just old buttons. Also they are cheaper, I can see now in the store for just €270.

But looks like many people wants screens, apps and happily pay extra for washing machine with extra features.

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