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Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

whitehouse.gov

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Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#71

Post by seanmcdirmid »

DaveExeter wrote: post #63
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What if China only charges $1k or even free for the same people? I mean, they are doing lots of AI work now also, and you can already see a few foreign programmers in Beijing, Shanghai, and Shenzhen. What is stopping Apple, Microsoft, Meta, or Amazon from doing even more work in India or other countries because they can't get the people they need in the US, or its just cheaper to setup more research jobs in Stockholm…

I think you meant "world market". Companies are going to be offshoring as much as they can anyway. Bits fly across borders untaxed. If there is some foreign talent that, for example, Meta thinks will benefit their bottom line by $1M/year, an extra $100K on top of a $250K benefits package is small change! It's a human-tariff, but it is paid by wealthy corporations.

Yes, world market, darn phone. They have more incentive to offshore now, $100k is some overhead but so is setting up an office overseas (~$100k/engineer).

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#72

Post by ojbyrne »

alephnerd wrote: post #39
ojbyrne wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s a GCC?

Global Capability Center - think offshoring, except now you have a VP or GM assigned at that office, and a couple of P/L owning PMs and Eng Directors and actual IP being created. Basically, back office work offshoring like in the 2000s is dead. Now entire revenue generating or complex IP product lines are being produced by offshore teams. GCP's Security and K8s portfolio is a good example of that or that team at Face…

One personal pet peeve I have is using obscure (and in this case, non-Google-able) acronyms. Its easy to just give the full name once, then use the acronym after.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#73

Post by porridgeraisin »

alephnerd wrote: post #70
nis0s wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The decision is hiring in the US (visa or citizen) versus hiring abroad. True, but there’s a balance that employers have to maintain to get some in-state advantages from local or state governments for job creation. That said, it makes more sense for America to get trainers or professors for niche subfields than actual workers so you can create homegrown talent, not sure why that isn’t done more.

> but there’s a balance that employers have to maintain to get some in-state advantages from local or state governments for job creation True! The issue is local, state, and federal governments gives limited benefits compared to CEE countries, Israel, India, and others who roll the red carpet with multi-year tax holidays, subsidizes, and targeted hiring pipelines. > makes more sense for America to get trainers or pro…

> such a stupid approach

What do you think of this alternate one?

Don't make H1-B employer-specific. That way, they automatically have to pay market rates to the guy since otherwise you would sponsor his entry and he'd switch to a market rate employer immediately. This removes the "unfair" aspect of h1bs being cheaper to hire.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#74

Post by FreakLegion »

rayiner wrote: post #51
jonstewart wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If there such a thing as American exceptionalism, if the USA has an edge, it is immigration. Without it, our demographic future is cooked. So, that’s why.

> If there such a thing as American exceptionalism, if the USA has an edge, it is immigration You’re conflating cause and effect. The U.S. has had high immigration because it’s exceptional, not the other way around. The U.S. GDP/capita was head and shoulders above everyone except Great Britain by 1801: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/bdvazr/top... . That was before even the German mass migration. Si…

At least five of the traitorous eight were immigrants or children of immigrants, but do go on.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#75

Post by chickenzzzzu »

FreakLegion wrote: post #74
rayiner wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there such a thing as American exceptionalism, if the USA has an edge, it is immigration You’re conflating cause and effect. The U.S. has had high immigration because it’s exceptional, not the other way around. The U.S. GDP/capita was head and shoulders above everyone except Great Britain by 1801: https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeautiful/comments/bdvazr/top... . That was before even the German mass migration. Si…

At least five of the traitorous eight were immigrants or children of immigrants, but do go on.

Why can't existing American businesses invest in these individuals while they live abroad, and then the US government can tax the profits the investors make?

Why must it be that they must live here, taking desk jobs and barista jobs from Americans? How many hundreds of thousands of Shockleys got their start working as baristas, nurses, and mechanics (yes I know they are not H1B)? Do you believe that any American who fails to compete with the entire world deserves it? Why can't I move to India and become Shockley over there?

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#76

Post by cherry_tree »

rayiner wrote: post #47
C-x_C-f wrote: post #7

[flagged]

The comparison as stated straightforwardly shows that the percentage of workers who are foreign born has grown. Your comparison is the odd one. Yes, the increase in jobs is higher for American citizens, in absolute numbers, than for foreign workers. Of course. These are jobs in America, after all. The baseline growth in foreign workers I’d expect would be zero .

If overall jobs in a sector had increased, why would you expect the growth of foreign workers to be 0?

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#77

Post by FreakLegion »

chickenzzzzu wrote: post #75
FreakLegion wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At least five of the traitorous eight were immigrants or children of immigrants, but do go on.

Why can't existing American businesses invest in these individuals while they live abroad, and then the US government can tax the profits the investors make? Why must it be that they must live here, taking desk jobs and barista jobs from Americans? How many hundreds of thousands of Shockleys got their start working as baristas, nurses, and mechanics (yes I know they are not H1B)? Do you believe that any American who…

Everything you mention also happens. American investors invest abroad, American companies hire abroad, increasingly Americans even leave the US to found companies abroad. This is all fine, I guess, if you want the money and the jobs and the innovation to leave the US.

What are we really arguing about, though? I don't think there's meaningful disagreement about fixing visa abuses. Disagreement about how to fix them, yes, but not about whether they need to be fixed. So assuming a world where H-1Bs work as intended and bring only the most capable people, not baristas or even low-level IT, to the US, is that still a problem for you?

Personally, I like the idea of a country where the smartest people from around the world come together and do amazing things. Contra rayiner, this is exactly how the modern tech industry was born, and it's been a driving force of the US economy for decades. It's a mystery to me how anyone who wants America to maintain its status in the world can think giving up ground here to Europe or India or China is a good idea. The second-order effects will make your life worse, not better.

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#78

Post by [deleted] »

FreakLegion wrote: post #77
chickenzzzzu wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why can't existing American businesses invest in these individuals while they live abroad, and then the US government can tax the profits the investors make? Why must it be that they must live here, taking desk jobs and barista jobs from Americans? How many hundreds of thousands of Shockleys got their start working as baristas, nurses, and mechanics (yes I know they are not H1B)? Do you believe that any American who…

Everything you mention also happens. American investors invest abroad, American companies hire abroad, increasingly Americans even leave the US to found companies abroad. This is all fine, I guess, if you want the money and the jobs and the innovation to leave the US. What are we really arguing about, though? I don't think there's meaningful disagreement about fixing visa abuses. Disagreement about how to fix them, y…

[deleted]

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#79

Post by rco8786 »

halfcat wrote: post #48
C-x_C-f wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I did considered that but then went with Hanlon's razor [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

You seem good at using the tools of data. Stick to that. We need more people like you. Don’t let clever phrasing dim your shine. Hanlon’s razor is in that group of things the expert class is supposed to say so the expert class doesn’t use the tools of data on their masters and attempt to convict them. Along with Occam’s razor, correlation does not imply causation, extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence,…

Please take the AI slop elsewhere

Re: Restriction on Entry of Certain Nonimmigrant Workers

#80

Post by rco8786 »

C-x_C-f wrote: post #30
rco8786 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They all know that. These are politicians. They know they’re misrepresenting the data. They don’t care, they consider it to be part of the job, and they’re not wrong. That’s it.

I did considered that but then went with Hanlon's razor [0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanlon%27s_razor

I don't think it's malice though, that's not what I said.
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