Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

71–80 of 108 posts

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#71

Post by fsckboy »

ohyes wrote: post #24

The thing I really love about magic is that so much of it boils down to “I practiced for years and developed a seemingly superhuman ability to manipulate this object”. I really relate to this because despite being at least ostensibly “gifted” my entire academic career, almost all of my professional success has been because I have been willing to climb steep learning curves at the expense of hours of my life and extre…

>willing to climb steep learning curves

fwiw, learning curve theory relates how much learning you get through time or episodes of experience. a lot of learning from a small amount of experience (easy to learn) means you will slide quickly down that steep learning curve. a shallow learning curve implies that it takes a great deal of experience to learn.

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#72

Post by theshrike79 »

troupo wrote: post #60
JdeBP wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kostya Kimlat comes to mind.

Those beady little eyes! https://youtu.be/SCFXV6o7cro?si=T7TCSHAkHvkcI2SX

FYI the si= part is a unique tracker added by Google to track who clicks the link you shared.

You can, and should, remove it to not give their graph more data about you.

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#73

Post by unanimous »

exe34 wrote: post #61
pklausler wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A learning curve is a model for how much you can learn over time. A subject with a steep learning curve is actually one that doesn’t take much time to reach a high level. It’s the subjects with shallow slopes that take more work to raise up to proficiency.

No, the typical meaning of a learning curve is the path you walk up the hill - some hills are very steep, which takes a lot of effort.

True, that meaning seems to be typical now. The opposite is the original meaning though.

> Scores of authors use the phrase “steep learning curve” or “sharp learning curve” in reference to a skill that is difficult to master. . . . Nevertheless, from the standpoint of learning theory, these and other authors have it backward, because a steep learning curve, i.e., a curve with a large positive slope, is associated with a skill that is acquired easily and rapidly (Hopper et al., 2007).

Source: Fifty psychological and psychiatric terms to avoid: a list of inaccurate, misleading, misused, ambiguous, and logically confused words and phrases (https://www.frontiersin.org/journals/psychology/articles/10....)

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#74

Post by elsjaako »

pklausler wrote: post #58
ohyes wrote: post #24

The thing I really love about magic is that so much of it boils down to “I practiced for years and developed a seemingly superhuman ability to manipulate this object”. I really relate to this because despite being at least ostensibly “gifted” my entire academic career, almost all of my professional success has been because I have been willing to climb steep learning curves at the expense of hours of my life and extre…

A learning curve is a model for how much you can learn over time. A subject with a steep learning curve is actually one that doesn’t take much time to reach a high level. It’s the subjects with shallow slopes that take more work to raise up to proficiency.

It's a bit of a fossilized error. Like "this begs the question of...", "head over heels", "sleeping like a baby", and "Have your cake and eat it too" everyone should understand what it means, even if it doesn't stand up to technical analysis.

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#75

Post by TiredOfLife »

adastra22 wrote: post #69
JKCalhoun wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yep, it was probably what pissed off the Magic Circle. https://youtu.be/i0m8CC7Ovj8

The Magic Circle absolutely does not like revealing the trick. Penn and Teller are all about revealing the trick. They see it more or less as their moral duty to make sure you know THERE IS NO MAGIC HERE. I've always respected them a great amount for that. I'm glad that The Magic Circle finally came around.

Teller has sued at least one magician for revealing Tellers trick

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#76

Post by TiredOfLife »

alex1138 wrote: post #41

It would be remiss not to mention James Randi as well, who while being a magician also had a career exposing genuine fraudsters (who wanted you to take them seriously, unlike Randi's magic)

There is a documentary "An Honest Liar" about him. It goes to unexpected places

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#77

Post by exe34 »

unanimous wrote: post #73
exe34 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No, the typical meaning of a learning curve is the path you walk up the hill - some hills are very steep, which takes a lot of effort.

True, that meaning seems to be typical now. The opposite is the original meaning though. > Scores of authors use the phrase “steep learning curve” or “sharp learning curve” in reference to a skill that is difficult to master. . . . Nevertheless, from the standpoint of learning theory, these and other authors have it backward, because a steep learning curve, i.e., a curve with a large positive slope, is associated wit…

Yes, but most people can hold two competing definitions in their head at the same time!

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#78

Post by mazokum »

willvarfar wrote: post #67
iambateman wrote: post #15

The show Fool Us is wonderful…and this clip in particular is my favorite: https://youtu.be/5_KcQt0z-eE?si=xO5gTByzV0spzS2e

Back when national TV mostly showed national magicians, and sparingly, my family loved "Fool Us" because it brought such a variety of different magicians from all around the world into our living room. My favourite magician I've discovered since being online is Lennert Green https://www.ted.com/talks/lennart_green_close_up_card_magic_ ... Really wish he'd been on Fool Us!

Lennart Green is actually one of DaOrtiz "parents" in magic (the other being Juan Tamariz). You can see Lennart's spirit in his use of chaos.

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#79

Post by whizzter »

Onavo wrote: post #19

I am not sure why they even bother...they are at the top of their fields and they are household names in America that are synonymous with magic. Not since Houdini has there been such famous magicians in show biz. The professional organizations should be naming prizes after them instead of them begging to be part of the in-group. You don't see Bill Gates, Jobs, or Torvalds begging to join the IEEE.

Keeping them out might have been due to some oldtimer in the organization that couldn't let go of the "never reveal secrets" gospel, whilst newer members at the top recognize that with todays social medias the cat's truly out of the bag and alienating the biggest household names is just counter-productive.

I think they've also seen that American Wrestling seems to be doing fine even if the entire fakeness is out in the open.

Re: After 50 years, The Magic Circle finally inducts Penn and Teller

#80

Post by incone123 »

lisper wrote: post #62
ohyes wrote: post #24

The thing I really love about magic is that so much of it boils down to “I practiced for years and developed a seemingly superhuman ability to manipulate this object”. I really relate to this because despite being at least ostensibly “gifted” my entire academic career, almost all of my professional success has been because I have been willing to climb steep learning curves at the expense of hours of my life and extre…

> so much of it boils down to “I practiced for years and developed a seemingly superhuman ability to manipulate this object”. Amateur magician here (but a magician member of the Magic Castle, so I know a few things). Manual dexterity is certainly a useful skill, but it's just a tiny part of the art of magic. You can be a consummate sleight-of-hand artist and still be a mediocre magician, and conversely, some of the b…

" The best magicians make it look like magic even when you know how the trick is done. "

Agree with this. I remember being the 'skeptic kid' at a birthday party long ago. The magician involved me in a trick everyone could figure out but it was done with charm and I was completely delighted.

Post reply on HN