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Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

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Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#71

Post by vanc_cefepime »

BetterGeiger wrote: post #66
geerlingguy wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would really like to have a geiger counter that I can put on the wall and connect to Zigbee/Z-Wave/WiFi and tie into Home Assistant. I've considered building one with the cheaper tube and ESP32, but I'm surprised that for Radon and radiation, it seems like something like AirGradient, but for radioactivity, doesn't exist.

I am not aware of anything that can connect to home assistant like that. It is definitely missing from the market and something I would like to make eventually, but too many other projects to finish first.

I use an Aranet radiation sensor[0] that ties in nicely with home assistant. It was more of a fun purchase, and excuse my lack of radiation knowledge, but is it same as those geiger counters or something a big different, I assumed it's similar but slower? They also have other sensors for Radon, CO2, etc

[0] https://aranet.com/en/home/products/aranet-radiation-sensor

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#72

Post by Balgair »

BetterGeiger wrote: post #35

Cool project! My business is Better Geiger (www.bettergeiger.com), I design and sell radiation detectors. I just hope people keep in mind the capabilities and limitations of those simple Geiger tubes. Radon was mentioned on the project website, yes technically radon decay products are detectable but pracfically a Geiger tube is reacting only to terrestrial, cosmic, and other sources of radiation, not anything to do w…

Amazing! Great work.

Random question for you in the biz: where can I get a muon detector setup? I just can't find them anywhere and would love to gain access to the extraterrestrial and solar weather particle environment.

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#73

Post by bsjjdjs »

vegadw wrote: post #7

This project is neat and OP did a good job, but I think the interest in Geiger counters among hackers needs an update. The Geiger kit on Adafruit (Yes, I know that makes the cost a lot higher to be from them instead of Ali, but I think is a good baseline for "finished good" price) is $99. Meanwhile, Raysid or Radiacode let you do full on gamma spectrometry, for about 2.5x the price. And, like, yeah, 2.5x the price. I…

Which is the best inexpensive Geiger counter and which features probably don’t matter if you want to stay safe?

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#74

Post by BetterGeiger »

Balgair wrote: post #72
BetterGeiger wrote: post #35

Cool project! My business is Better Geiger (www.bettergeiger.com), I design and sell radiation detectors. I just hope people keep in mind the capabilities and limitations of those simple Geiger tubes. Radon was mentioned on the project website, yes technically radon decay products are detectable but pracfically a Geiger tube is reacting only to terrestrial, cosmic, and other sources of radiation, not anything to do w…

Amazing! Great work. Random question for you in the biz: where can I get a muon detector setup? I just can't find them anywhere and would love to gain access to the extraterrestrial and solar weather particle environment.

I really want to make one to sell but too many other projects. The last time I saw them for sale was through the UKRAA but they seem to be out of stock for a while. You might be able to cobble one together with ebay stuff and online guides but it would be a struggle. Sorry I don't have a better answer.

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#75

Post by thadt »

BetterGeiger wrote: post #54
vegadw wrote: post #7

This project is neat and OP did a good job, but I think the interest in Geiger counters among hackers needs an update. The Geiger kit on Adafruit (Yes, I know that makes the cost a lot higher to be from them instead of Ali, but I think is a good baseline for "finished good" price) is $99. Meanwhile, Raysid or Radiacode let you do full on gamma spectrometry, for about 2.5x the price. And, like, yeah, 2.5x the price. I…

I gave a more detailed comment already, but price/performance is not a simple two axis thing. No consumer grade gamma spec device measures high dose rate which is needed for emergency use. Depending on the intended use case something lower cost than radiacode might make sense. For example the radiacode 110 ($400) has the same volume and type of scintillator, with very high sensitivity, as the better geiger S2L ($200)…

Yeah, even in the non-consumer grade space, you're still likely to want to include something like a calibrated GM tube in the lineup, for measuring dose after the scintillators are saturated.

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#76

Post by BetterGeiger »

vanc_cefepime wrote: post #71
BetterGeiger wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am not aware of anything that can connect to home assistant like that. It is definitely missing from the market and something I would like to make eventually, but too many other projects to finish first.

I use an Aranet radiation sensor[0] that ties in nicely with home assistant. It was more of a fun purchase, and excuse my lack of radiation knowledge, but is it same as those geiger counters or something a big different, I assumed it's similar but slower? They also have other sensors for Radon, CO2, etc [0] https://aranet.com/en/home/products/aranet-radiation-sensor

Oh I didn't realize that worked with home assistant. It's a little different than a Geiger tube, that device uses a PIN diode and reacts to radiation interactions with the diode itself. Accuracy isn't great for dose but probably decent enough. Sensitivity is very very low, takes a while to get a reading. In theory it should be able to handle high dose rate levels but the spec sheet says it only measures to 1 mSv/hr which is pretty low, I don't know why. Their radon sensor is a different sensor tech, and CO2 and such is standard stuff pretty easy to implement.

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#77

Post by BetterGeiger »

thadt wrote: post #75
BetterGeiger wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I gave a more detailed comment already, but price/performance is not a simple two axis thing. No consumer grade gamma spec device measures high dose rate which is needed for emergency use. Depending on the intended use case something lower cost than radiacode might make sense. For example the radiacode 110 ($400) has the same volume and type of scintillator, with very high sensitivity, as the better geiger S2L ($200)…

Yeah, even in the non-consumer grade space, you're still likely to want to include something like a calibrated GM tube in the lineup, for measuring dose after the scintillators are saturated.

Yes exactly, often a small energy compensated GM tube that is not very sensitive but can handle very high radiation levels is included in the same device as a pro detector with a fancy scintillator.

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#78

Post by BetterGeiger »

bsjjdjs wrote: post #73
vegadw wrote: post #7

This project is neat and OP did a good job, but I think the interest in Geiger counters among hackers needs an update. The Geiger kit on Adafruit (Yes, I know that makes the cost a lot higher to be from them instead of Ali, but I think is a good baseline for "finished good" price) is $99. Meanwhile, Raysid or Radiacode let you do full on gamma spectrometry, for about 2.5x the price. And, like, yeah, 2.5x the price. I…

Which is the best inexpensive Geiger counter and which features probably don’t matter if you want to stay safe?

For staying safe you want high max range and energy-compensated dose response. No ultra cheap devices offer that, mine is the closest thing on the low end of price, but consider me biased... If anyone finds something to contradict that feel free to share, because it would be new info to me. Then there is the second hand market, for example mrad 113 is a good device that can sometimes be had for a reasonable price, probably there are other pro grade dosimeters on ebay for a reasonable price but I don't know follow that market closely.

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#79

Post by defrost »

geerlingguy wrote: post #64
BetterGeiger wrote: post #35

Cool project! My business is Better Geiger (www.bettergeiger.com), I design and sell radiation detectors. I just hope people keep in mind the capabilities and limitations of those simple Geiger tubes. Radon was mentioned on the project website, yes technically radon decay products are detectable but pracfically a Geiger tube is reacting only to terrestrial, cosmic, and other sources of radiation, not anything to do w…

I would really like to have a geiger counter that I can put on the wall and connect to Zigbee/Z-Wave/WiFi and tie into Home Assistant. I've considered building one with the cheaper tube and ESP32, but I'm surprised that for Radon and radiation, it seems like something like AirGradient, but for radioactivity, doesn't exist.

You might be interested in RadiaCode (full gamma spectrum) and RadiaCode Python Library - https://www.radiacode.com/ and https://github.com/cdump/radiacode

For Radon detection options are

* direct alpha detection via wet film + process (slow, and day turnover physical processing) OR optical scintillation of filtered air, or

* stochastic gamma detection via a full spectrum and a formula to identify and divide out main peaks and daughter peaks of overlapping common radiometric decay (Uranium, Potassium, Thorium) to guesstimate the radon

Re: Flipper Zero Geiger Counter

#80

Post by aa-jv »

whytevuhuni wrote: post #17

I wonder if a device with worse RAM can measure radiation by checking how many of its own bits are being randomly flipped. Coding a program that could self-heal and survive in such a situation would be fun.

Back in my SIL4 days, we had a de-capped memory SIMM in the lab that we used to test resilience to cosmic rays for certification and other testing procedures .. often requiring a junior dev to sit there waiting for the signal and remove the lead shield we'd place over it when not testing, in order to trigger a cosmic bit shift. We had t-shirts for those guys "Guardian of the Cosmic Bit" printed up, was a fun time ..
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