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React is winning by default and slowing innovation

lorenstew.art

71–80 of 866 posts

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#71
The main gist of this seems to be that other frameworks beat React on performance.. but who cares? The speed difference in 99.99% of apps is one that no-one can perceive

React trades this very minor performance hit to give us better developer clarity through a functional paradigm. This makes complex state management much easier to manage

A better article could've been written for this title. I just don't care about improving renders by 3ms when it's already fast enough

I think the reason React won, and is still top dog, is that improvements to performance at this point aren't worth it if you have to give up something beneficial

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#72
React (and Elm and the many other inspired frameworks) is a beautiful model for writing apps but because it is not the browser's model it is an instance of the "Inner Platform Effect" anti-pattern. The performance is never going to be as good as embracing the built in features of the browser and using minimal JS to accomplish the interaction you need.

Maybe it can be justified for real apps like desktop apps but the vast majority of web pages that use React could probably provide a better experience to users without it.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#73
I feel this with every fiber of my being. I used to do a TON of front-end work, some of it quite cutting edge, delivering highly performant user experiences in the browser that had previously been only thought possible in a native app. Back in like 2009-2015. I was deeply connected with the web standards fundamentals and how to leverage them mostly directly.

I detoured into heavier focus on backend work for quite a while, concurrent with the rise of React, and watched its rise with suspicion because it seemed like such an inefficient way to do things. That, and JSX's limitations around everything having to be an expression made me want to gauge out my eyes.

Still, React pushed and laid the foundation for some really important paradigm shifts in terms of state management. The path from the old mental models around state to a unidirectional flow of immutable data... re-learning a totally new mental model was painful, but important.

Even though it's been chaotic at times, React has delivered a lot of value in terms of innovation and how we conceptualize web application architecture.

But today, when you compare it to something like SolidJS, it's really clear to see how Solid delivers basically all the same benefits, but in an architecture that's both simpler and more performant. And in a way that's much easier to organize and reason about than React. You still get JSX, server components, reactive state management (actually a MUCH better and cleaner foundation for that) and any React dev could move to Solid with fairly little mental re-wiring of the neural pathways. It doesn't require you to really change anything about how you think about application architecture and structure. It just basically does everything React does but better, faster, and with drastically smaller bundle sizes.

Yet I still have to begrudgingly use React in several contexts because of the industry-wide inertia, and I really wish I didn't have to.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#75
post #27

its kind of a blessing that SOMETHING won. We finally can just use a component. We don't have to worry about - oh I wish I could use that, but it's written in X framework.

Now you’re forced to use react even for simple pages that just need that one component.

Yeah, well we're often forced to just use something. Computers and cars are a good example of baseline things we're forced to use for some category of tasks.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#76
To replace something with the momentum of React both as tech and an industry "standard" you are going to need something which provides an incredible leap forward and is pushed by someone with very deep pockets, its hard to see it happening. The negatives if any of React simply aren't big enough to go for a less popular framework

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> React is mostly HTML driven by data. I wish! Mostly though, React is a terrible mess of hooks with weird rules, suspense, “use client”, pedantic docs, and millions of other idiosyncrasies that have no business being this mainstream. I think most people agree that the core ideas are great. Eg composable components, props, unidirectional data flow etc. There’s a reason that all other reasonably popular frontend frame…

I thought the way React did suspense was pretty elegant? The component render function is pure, meaning you can re-render component without unwanted side-effects. So on encountering an unresolved promise, halt and throw the promise, then have the runtime catch the promise and re-execute the render when it resolves. I thought this was really an elegant way to introduce an asynchronous dependencies.

It only achieves purity by re-defining the pre-existing concept of "pure". Component state is not passed as an argument, and can affect the output of a render function. It's only by playing semantic games that react claims to be pure, which I find to be of dubious value in this domain anyway.

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#79

I feel this with every fiber of my being. I used to do a TON of front-end work, some of it quite cutting edge, delivering highly performant user experiences in the browser that had previously been only thought possible in a native app. Back in like 2009-2015. I was deeply connected with the web standards fundamentals and how to leverage them mostly directly. I detoured into heavier focus on backend work for quite a w…

You don’t have to! I wonder what you think of this framework my company (mostly me) developed over the last decade, I am open sourcing it under MIT license: https://github.com/Qbix/Q.js

Re: React is winning by default and slowing innovation

#80
post #6

> React didn’t win purely on technical merit A sentence written by someone who clearly hasn't worked on a large Angular 1.x project.

I always thought Angular 1.x was _fine_, so long as you had incredible discipline in your team and stuck to predefined patterns.

React’s main benefit wasn’t technical, it was organisational. It’s so opinionated that it’s difficult for an incompetent developer to introduce very low quality code into the project. Meanwhile in AngularJS, a developer with a clever implementation idea was a terrifying prospect for future productivity.

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