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Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

theintercept.com

71–80 of 217 posts

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#71
post #52

I've been following this on X/Twitter and I think one of the most egregious things that's important to point out is that folks from Phrack reached out to Proton in private multiple times, and Proton ghosted them. Proton only engaged with them and then reinstated the accounts after Phrack went public and their X/Twitter post went viral. It also looks like one of the writers filed an appeal with Proton and Proton denie…

On a positive note: having reach on social media can solve problems nowadays.

And there’s no shortage of people excited to hop on the next outrage train.

With good cause, in this case, but the crowds wielding pitchforks don’t much care either way.

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#72
post #4

Can proton even win here? The obvious solution would be "we don't take down unless there's a court order", but then you'd get exposé pieces saying how protonmail is a den for drug dealers/pedophiles/doxxers/cyber criminals.

Yes.

Most CERT requests are valid and good and should be obliged.. but there should be a manual check involved.

Especially when an appeal is filed. Especially when the content is obviously security reporting.

Both extremes are wrong - don't ignore CERTs and don't mindlessly oblige them. Find one of the many reasonable middlegrounds.

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#73
Proton dropped from the top spot on my list of “user-first email platforms” when they announced they’ll be deleting accounts that haven’t logged into their service in some arbitrary amount of time. If I can’t rely on my email / messaging / phone / communications provider to keep an open line for as long as I need it – whether that’s one year or two years or twenty years, then I’m not going to use it. And if they require payment in exchange for providing that service, then it better accept privacy-preserving payment, but even then, I’m probably not going to use it.

Proton had a great thing going where their VPN service and business service funded the cost of maintaining free accounts. The fact that they chose to destroy years of trust by announcing a deletion policy, indicated to me that they no longer care about their users more than they care about running a business.

I’m not even asking for something unreasonable. It’d be one thing if they didn’t want to maintain free accounts with no activity but hundreds of gigabytes of storage. But they haven’t stratified the limit by storage usage. If you’ve got a free account consuming a few megabytes of storage, maybe an email you setup for the government service you interact with every few years… well you better make sure you remember to do the arbitrary chore of logging into that account every year, or Proton will just delete it, no questions asked.

Maybe they’ll send you some reminders if you gave them a “recovery” email, but that defeats the point of signing up to a privacy-preserving email service and calls into question the premise that they even are one.

(In related news, I need to text myself on Google Voice every few months or they’re gonna delete the number I use for 2FA on critical services… and this is an account that has $4 of credit loaded into it from ten years ago…)

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#74
post #52

I've been following this on X/Twitter and I think one of the most egregious things that's important to point out is that folks from Phrack reached out to Proton in private multiple times, and Proton ghosted them. Proton only engaged with them and then reinstated the accounts after Phrack went public and their X/Twitter post went viral. It also looks like one of the writers filed an appeal with Proton and Proton denie…

On a positive note: having reach on social media can solve problems nowadays.

So, if you have sufficient influence, you can get things moving.

What about those of us nobodies with no influence?

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#75
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a positive note: having reach on social media can solve problems nowadays.

So, if you have sufficient influence, you can get things moving. What about those of us nobodies with no influence?

well, you can't get the same stuff done that the folks with influence can. like they're working with a better toolbox.

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#76
post #18

I've need a paying subscriber to Proton since 2018, but I recently canceled my subscription (which ends in November). I just got fed up with the constant bugginess and jankiness of their offerings. Any suggestions for mail hosting and VPN? I hear good things about Fastmail and mailbox.org (I see they very recently rebranded to just mailbox and revamped their offering). Also, I've been a heavy user of the SimpleLogin…

I moved from Proton to Fastmail (and Mullvad for VPN). I was a a founding paying member of Proton Mail. I loved them and evangelised them for years. But after a decade, the quality of the offering, especially the mail and calendar, is almost a joke, and the company seems very distracted chasing the next big thing (the half baked password manager being one). Comparing Fastmail’s UI and feature set with Proton, you qui…

I’d say they make one of the best password managers. Its probably their biggest success in recent years.

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#77
post #18

I've need a paying subscriber to Proton since 2018, but I recently canceled my subscription (which ends in November). I just got fed up with the constant bugginess and jankiness of their offerings. Any suggestions for mail hosting and VPN? I hear good things about Fastmail and mailbox.org (I see they very recently rebranded to just mailbox and revamped their offering). Also, I've been a heavy user of the SimpleLogin…

I've been on Zoho for my (and my partner's) email for 4+ years and it has been great. Chose them because there is no per-domain charge, so I have like 12 domains on it.

The configurability is extensive in both web app and ios email app. Service has been fast and stable. They rarely change anything in the UI (no random tinkering is what I mean) so it is predictable and easy to use.

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#78
post #68

I've been following this on X/Twitter and I think one of the most egregious things that's important to point out is that folks from Phrack reached out to Proton in private multiple times, and Proton ghosted them. Proton only engaged with them and then reinstated the accounts after Phrack went public and their X/Twitter post went viral. It also looks like one of the writers filed an appeal with Proton and Proton denie…

Proton does not require a shred of proof that you are a real human being either, fyi. I'm not actually attacking them for this specifically, because I feel that we need privacy focused tools, however the fact that I was able to create a few hundred proton email addresses in seconds by injecting usernames/passwords was scary, even to me. I'm surprised they aren't on spam block lists worldwide. Their captcha is child's…

Their controls are buffed up: all of those accounts are linked due to having been created with the same IP address. If one is blocked, they all are. If you try to circumvent this with a well-known proxy (such as Tor or a V"P""N") you will find that captcha activation will not exist as an option.

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, if you have sufficient influence, you can get things moving. What about those of us nobodies with no influence?

well, you can't get the same stuff done that the folks with influence can. like they're working with a better toolbox.

Which is all cool until Google rug-pulls your influence and you’re back to zero… in which case it doesn’t sound like a tool anymore.

Maybe a tool with DRM embedded would be an appropriate analogy?

Re: Proton Mail suspended journalist accounts at request of cybersecurity agency

#80
The true value of a company can be measured by our ability to communicate with them. If we can't communicate except after public outrage, then what does that say about the company?

Here's a genuine question: is Proton Mail the least shitty of companies that provide email services?

I self-host email and will continue until I die. But for others who need a company to do this for them, is Proton Mail the least shitty of options? Does this change the evaluation? I'm genuinely curious about the opinion of others here.

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