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Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

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Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#71
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When the media stops holding people in power accountable, they are no different than idiots with megaphones. The press has special rights because accountability and informing the public was supposed to be their job.

Might be worth asking: Why would “the media” do this? Over thousands of outlets?

I think you could reduce the profession of journalism to “forced transparency”, which can be a form of accountability unto itself.

In short: because it’s simply who they are by definition

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#72

[flagged]

From TFA:

"There’s zero intelligent content about the underlying scientific issues (is fundamental theoretical physics in trouble?), just a random collection of material about podcasts, written by someone who clearly knows nothing about the topic he’s writing about. The epistemic collapse is total when traditional high-quality information sources like the Wall Street Journal are turned over to uninformed writers getting their information from Joe Rogan podcasts. Any hope of figuring out what is true and what is false is now completely gone."

Now extend this to the state of all public discourse in the US degraded by propaganda.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#73
post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What?

Allegedly, Charlie Kirk's killer, Tyler Robinson, may have been a groyper.

What's the evidence for this claim? Seems at odds with the details reported here: https://www.the-independent.com/news/world/americas/us-polit...

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#74
By nature, journalists are not subject matter experts. Even in the height of our technological progress during the space race, the best they could do was call up a nationally recognized expert, get an oversimplified explanation, and publish a summary of that. The true knowledge was locked into a small set of researcher circles running out of exclusive labs and in whatever they published or lectured about.

Journalism is the one part of this equation that has changed the least since then. The way I see it, there are two bigger forces at work:

- The demand that normal people have for this sort of knowledge. People today believe they should have a front row seat to everything and be an active participant. And to a lesser degree we have encouraged this as a society through television, social media, or even the way we assumed every student needed a well-rounded undergraduate college education.

- Academia has exploded in size and scope in the last century. The prestige, the hierarchy, the social ladder climbing, the funding battles, the publishing race, the sheer number of graduate students in these programs. These programs are meat grinders that pump out all sorts of noise and failed academics with grudges. We have conveniently forgot that there is a massive ongoing replication crisis that is still largely being ignored.

Journalists and scientists can point fingers at each other as much as they want and claim the other knows nothing about what they are speaking of. But at the end of the day the sheer amount of information (right and wrong) at our fingertips is bearing down on our society like a great weight ready to destroy us all.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#75

It's not just technical subjects, either. In the midst of the chaos of Charlie Kirk's assassination, they ran an article [0] yesterday titled (it has since been edited) "Ammunition in Kirk Shooting Engraved With Transgender, Antifascist Ideology" . It's just incredibly irresponsible reporting. One can only assume it is a symptom of a wider problem within WSJ and media itself. 0: https://www.wsj.com/livecoverage/charl…

I believe it says quite a lot when a major and supposedly reputable institution like the WSJ will sacrifice journalistic rigor when they see an opportunity to potentially besmirch the image of a sharply unpopular demographic. Facts still matter over agenda. People should be fired for this.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

News never reported well. Murray Gell Mann noticed long ago.

It can be true that news has always struggled to get certain/technical subjects entirely accurate while also being true that there's been a serious decline from an earlier point to now.

Gell-Mann amnesia isn't about being "not entirely accurate." The news has commonly gotten things completely backwards and completely wrong, from physics to babysitting. "Wet streets cause rain."

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#77

WSJ and the like just hire for pedigree. You end up with careerists writing generic articles, and injecting political opinion into everything

> WSJ and the like just hire for pedigree. You end up with careerists writing generic articles, and injecting political opinion into everything

I think your comment implies that journalism in some previous time did not 'just hire for pedigree' and 'end up with careerists.'

When was this time and who were the specialist writers from that moment? How can one write anything without taking a political stance? We make much of the odd era of doublespeak we endure (when is a 'special military operation' a 'war'?). But it's hard to imagine that there has ever been a time where even the selection of a descriptive phrase carries political weight. My imagination may be limited, I suppose.

Maybe I'm misinterpreting your argument and you mean that content meant for general consumption has always (read since its inception) been 'generic' and with '[injection] of political opinion.'

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#78
I've never heard of Eric Weinstein, but he sounds like a crank. I don't think he should be grouped together with Sabine, whose primary message is that she believes science funding priorities are out of whack, and are currently funding things she believes won't be fruitful or are over explored at the expense of things she believes are more promising.

There is a huge gap between - we should change funding priorities vs "Peer review was created by the government, working with Ghislaine Maxwell’s father, to control science". One is a reasonable but potentially controversial viewpoint. The other is batshit insane. These 2 views should not be grouped together.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#79

WSJ and the like just hire for pedigree. You end up with careerists writing generic articles, and injecting political opinion into everything

Journalism is kind of a weird thing... it's often been about truth to power and reporting even what the govt/establishment doesn't always want to see. Of course this also attracts a lot of activism. I think they've, for a long while, crossed over to more propaganda over truth in general. This combined with infotainment news business trends in general is a bad mix. I think it was just yesterday, I saw an article about…

> I think it was just yesterday, I saw an article about an ICE raid of the Samsung plant in Georgia. It was a pretty long article, and even the tone of the article was pretty level. That said, there was a critical and very important piece missing from the article altogether... "Why?" As in what law(s) were broken and how/why the raid was used. TBH, I don't know that a raid was necessary over revised negotiations between DoJ/ICE, Samsung, Korea and the people in question... That said, the fact the article clearly didn't even attempt to report the ICE reasoning was pretty damning of the author and the site.

Or maybe this was a rhetorical point? Even today, there are articles that are trying to piece together who informed on the plant and what the basis for an ICE raid was. It seems you and the authors retain a similar understanding of the situation.

Re: Epistemic Collapse at the WSJ

#80
post #59

[flagged]

From the WSJ article: > The field, they argue, has discovered little of importance in the last 50 years, because it is dominated by groupthink and silences anyone who dares to dissent from mainstream ideas, like string theory. I don't agree with the second part of the sentence, i.e. about the reason, not that I disagree, just that I have no idea why that is. But the first part, about discovering little of importance,…

It isn't hard to argue that most of the advances that people recognize as scientific advances are more from material sciences than they have ever been theoretical physics, though?

Even claiming that theoretical physics enabled the industrial revolution feels off to me. What supports that claim?

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