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South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

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Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#71

Post by cmdli »

binary132 wrote: post #65
Bud wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uh, they were BUILDING the factory. Which was then going to provide hundreds of jobs to Americans. Seems hard to characterize this in any way other than calling it incredibly stupid.

spell out for me how that makes it ok to use undocumented labor

Because the documentation is intentionally obtuse and difficult, meaning that it is nearly impossible to get approval for these kinds of things even though they benefit the US immensely.

It's like if a neighbor fixes your fence without asking you first. Wrong? Maybe. Harmful? Definitely not.

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#72

Post by senectus1 »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #58
sungchi wrote: post #44

In practice, Korean staff are essential for the initial setup of Korean companies’ factories. But even though Korea has an FTA with the US, it’s not allocated short-term work visa quotas (unlike Singapore, Chile, or Australia). For various political reasons, Korean firms have instead relied on ESTA short-term visas, and the US had tacitly allowed it. This time, however, a Republican filed a complaint saying these com…

I'm completely baffled by that. It would be preferable for the ICE to turn a blind eye to a huge corporation that is breaking the law in a large and systemic manner? It sounds like Hyundai has been dealing with the us in bad faith. Or the standing practice has been to choose not to enforce the law based on political considerations. That sounds awfully like end stage capitalism to me...

it depends on who you're pandering to...

Trump is facing some serious backlash from his blue-collar voters over the epstein files...

getting rid of korean workers for local jobs is going to give him some cover.

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#73

Post by lisbbb »

cmdli wrote: post #64
refurb wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, Trump needs to give Korea permission to ignore US immigration laws. /s

The solution here is to work with South Korea to follow actual procedure, not arrest everybody and deport them. These people were objectively good for the American economy.

I'm totally fine with these crackdowns and I hope H1Bs get a polite boot out the door next. It's the only way US citizens are ever getting tech work again.

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#74

Post by cmdli »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #58
sungchi wrote: post #44

In practice, Korean staff are essential for the initial setup of Korean companies’ factories. But even though Korea has an FTA with the US, it’s not allocated short-term work visa quotas (unlike Singapore, Chile, or Australia). For various political reasons, Korean firms have instead relied on ESTA short-term visas, and the US had tacitly allowed it. This time, however, a Republican filed a complaint saying these com…

I'm completely baffled by that. It would be preferable for the ICE to turn a blind eye to a huge corporation that is breaking the law in a large and systemic manner? It sounds like Hyundai has been dealing with the us in bad faith. Or the standing practice has been to choose not to enforce the law based on political considerations. That sounds awfully like end stage capitalism to me...

Haven't you ever turned a blind eye to somebody breaking corporate policy when you know its dumb and helps nobody? This is basically that. This kind of "immigration" is solely helpful but US immigration laws are intentionally obtuse and broken. The only "harm" here is that Hyundai didn't follow the right paperwork while helping build American manufacturing.

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#75

Post by throwawaymaths »

FridayoLeary wrote: post #31

What nobody is discussing is why hyundai was apparently employing 500 illegal workers [edit: i see some HNers have commented on it. The news sites and reddit have all somehow completely overlooked this significant angle]. I think it's reasonable to question if they got full employment rights as if they had been legal residents. Frankly i'm amazed the white house hasn't yet made a huge fuss about it and why hyundai is…

Its been discussed. Iiuc, Currently unlike other countries in a similar economic relationship as it, south Korea does not have access to a quota for short term business consultative employees, and Korean firms have been in the habit of misclassifying short term immigrant employees to get them in the door, doing the subcontracting trick to shield the supercontractor (in this case LG/Hyundai) from liability... In case it goes south, as it did this time.

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#76

Post by hyperpape »

sungchi wrote: post #44

In practice, Korean staff are essential for the initial setup of Korean companies’ factories. But even though Korea has an FTA with the US, it’s not allocated short-term work visa quotas (unlike Singapore, Chile, or Australia). For various political reasons, Korean firms have instead relied on ESTA short-term visas, and the US had tacitly allowed it. This time, however, a Republican filed a complaint saying these com…

The obvious followup question is how common it is for a company to bring in hundreds of workers to set up a factory.

I'm aware that there are people with specialized knowledge who travel internationally for that kind of work. What I'm unclear about is the scale.

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#77

Post by binary132 »

yongjik wrote: post #36
pylua wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Assuming that they are in illegally, the U.S. is the party that should be upset. If you are going to do business in the U.S. then you need to follow us laws.

You can say you're (rightfully) upset, without throwing employees of a major investor onto a jail without functioning toilets. The problem is that the US is sending deeply conflicting messages. Does it want Hyundai's investment or not? It's not that Hyundai needs to build a factory in the middle of nowhere in Georgia.

It sounds weirdly like you’re saying that one of the conditions of Hyundai doing business in the US is that we turn a blind eye to them breaking our labor laws, but I’m sure you couldn’t really mean that.

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#78

Post by FridayoLeary »

sungchi wrote: post #66
FridayoLeary wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely baffled by that. It would be preferable for the ICE to turn a blind eye to a huge corporation that is breaking the law in a large and systemic manner? It sounds like Hyundai has been dealing with the us in bad faith. Or the standing practice has been to choose not to enforce the law based on political considerations. That sounds awfully like end stage capitalism to me...

I don’t know the full story, but a couple of things seem likely. One is political pressure—ICE needed to show they were “doing something,” which explains the 500 agents and helicopters. The other is that it works as a signal from Trump: if you’re a foreign company, invest all you want, but make sure the jobs and know-how go to Americans from the start.

Your analysis makes sense. It's 100% justified and a win for the ICE- they certainly "did something". Given the size of the operation all those resources makes sense.

There was a political aspect to this story. It's odd that trump hasn't yet gone scorched earth on SK but he wanted to put them and everyone else on notice. He wants to negotiate from a position of strength.

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#79

Post by 0xbadcafebee »

cmdli wrote: post #71
binary132 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

spell out for me how that makes it ok to use undocumented labor

Because the documentation is intentionally obtuse and difficult, meaning that it is nearly impossible to get approval for these kinds of things even though they benefit the US immensely. It's like if a neighbor fixes your fence without asking you first. Wrong? Maybe. Harmful? Definitely not.

No excuse! The neighbor clearly should have paid to train a local worker in fence-fixing for a year or two, and then paid the local worker's wages while fixing the fence, and then let the worker go as they don't need to fix a fence again for some time. Granted that would take two years and tens of thousands of dollars more than the neighbor fixing it themselves, but that's the neighbor's problem. (well, and now the problem of the homeowner with the fence that has to wait 2 more years to get their fence fixed)

Re: South Korea will bring home 300 workers detained in Hyundai plant raid

#80

Post by geeunits »

Bud wrote: post #61
geeunits wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, one or two sneaky Koreans to help the cultural divide sounds plausibly okay, but an entire factory of undocumented workers? Seems hard to wash this one any way but clean.

Uh, they were BUILDING the factory. Which was then going to provide hundreds of jobs to Americans. Seems hard to characterize this in any way other than calling it incredibly stupid.

Sorry but as a legal immigrant (O1b then Green Card) -- they can easily apply for legal status if there were no possible skilled workers available legally, and locally. My personal barometer calls this unacceptable after.... 10? 20 examples? Almost 500!
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