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A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

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Re: A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

#71

Post by Ygg2 »

estearum wrote: post #23
Ygg2 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That just seems like an influence campaign. I expect every country to try to meddle in each other's politics, for their own gain. Also Tim Pool? Rubin? Those are small fries. Putin couldn't afford Joe Rogan or Ben Shapiro?

Right... that's how influence campaigns work. They take root at low-level inputs and get laundered onto larger and more legitimate platforms. A brief visit to Twitter will show you the hordes of bots constantly farming outrage bait, which then gets picked up by the micro-influencers, which then gets picked up (with some FSB financial assistance) by Tim Pool, Rubin, and Benny Johnson, which then gets picked up by Roga…

I mean it doesn't seem to be a really well designed or effective influence campaign.

If sowing division is the goal of KGB, they don't need to do anything. Americans are way better and have been way longer in that game. Honestly just pretending to give people money would be most cost effective.

If getting to own/buy Trump is the goal, they fucked up in that department. Ukraine is still getting support. China and India are getting tariffs, etc.

Re: A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

#72

Post by estearum »

Ygg2 wrote: post #71
estearum wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right... that's how influence campaigns work. They take root at low-level inputs and get laundered onto larger and more legitimate platforms. A brief visit to Twitter will show you the hordes of bots constantly farming outrage bait, which then gets picked up by the micro-influencers, which then gets picked up (with some FSB financial assistance) by Tim Pool, Rubin, and Benny Johnson, which then gets picked up by Roga…

I mean it doesn't seem to be a really well designed or effective influence campaign. If sowing division is the goal of KGB, they don't need to do anything. Americans are way better and have been way longer in that game. Honestly just pretending to give people money would be most cost effective. If getting to own/buy Trump is the goal, they fucked up in that department. Ukraine is still getting support. China and Indi…

What’s the counterfactual?

Neither of us have any clue how divided we’d be sans FSB information ops. We know for a fact these ops are happening and have infiltrated at least up to the White House’s shortlist of media personalities.

IMO it’s extremely naive to believe that information ops for some reason wouldn’t be effective in our own country. This stuff is based on some pretty basic psychological understanding (some of the most highly replicated) and our information infrastructure is especially fertile ground for it.

Re: A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

#73

Post by Ygg2 »

estearum wrote: post #72
Ygg2 wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean it doesn't seem to be a really well designed or effective influence campaign. If sowing division is the goal of KGB, they don't need to do anything. Americans are way better and have been way longer in that game. Honestly just pretending to give people money would be most cost effective. If getting to own/buy Trump is the goal, they fucked up in that department. Ukraine is still getting support. China and Indi…

What’s the counterfactual? Neither of us have any clue how divided we’d be sans FSB information ops. We know for a fact these ops are happening and have infiltrated at least up to the White House’s shortlist of media personalities. IMO it’s extremely naive to believe that information ops for some reason wouldn’t be effective in our own country. This stuff is based on some pretty basic psychological understanding (som…

> What’s the counterfactual?

The division in American weren't created by a foreign entity. The class war simply never ended.

If you're rich you want to keep less rich off your lawn. So you let the guys with torches fight the guys with pitchforks, by convincing they are each other's enemy.

> IMO it’s extremely naive to believe that information ops for some reason wouldn’t be effective in our own country.

It's another form of naivete to think that average CIA operative is any better at his job than average Joe.

Re: A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

#74

Post by estearum »

Ygg2 wrote: post #73
estearum wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What’s the counterfactual? Neither of us have any clue how divided we’d be sans FSB information ops. We know for a fact these ops are happening and have infiltrated at least up to the White House’s shortlist of media personalities. IMO it’s extremely naive to believe that information ops for some reason wouldn’t be effective in our own country. This stuff is based on some pretty basic psychological understanding (som…

> What’s the counterfactual? The division in American weren't created by a foreign entity. The class war simply never ended. If you're rich you want to keep less rich off your lawn. So you let the guys with torches fight the guys with pitchforks, by convincing they are each other's enemy. > IMO it’s extremely naive to believe that information ops for some reason wouldn’t be effective in our own country. It's another…

> The division in American weren't created by a foreign entity. The class war simply never ended.

You're stating this as if class tensions preclude the existence or effectiveness of foreign information operations. Do you actually believe that to be true?

Frankly you are not thinking very hard if you're making definitive monocausal statements about something like "divisiveness" in America.

Class tensions hurt us, race tensions hurt us, cultural and historical tensions hurt us, ideological tensions hurt us, and all of these are opportunistically weaponized by people (both foreign and domestic) who benefit from a more fractured America.

We're talking about one such entity, which is Russia.

> It's another form of naivete to think that average CIA operative is any better at his job than average Joe.

This isn't required to be effective at a job, which is why there are hordes of totally average yet gainfully employed people in the world. No one stated anyone is better than the average Joe at anything.

Re: A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

#75

Post by 1659447091 »

selimthegrim wrote: post #43
HankStallone wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem is, they don't like normal people. They don't trust them or think their opinions have value, and they've made that clear over the last several years. It took a while, but the normal people have finally started to get it. It wasn't always that way. Democrats like Bill Clinton used to be able to go out and talk to normal people and make them feel like he liked them and sympathized with them. I remember when…

AOC? Really?

What about her do you find fake or uncaring for the people?

She's a bit too left on some things for my personal taste, but I find her reasonable and still un-jaded/un-corrupted by her time in politics -- so far, time will tell if she caves like so many other who refuse to get out when they stop caring about the people they represent and only care to kiss the ring that stuffs their pockets. I would see her a vote worthy for that alone, compromise is all but forgotten these days. She reached out to Ted Cruz (of all people on the other side of the isle!) to work on banning the use of former congressional member from lobbying or becoming "shadow lobbyists" and reduce the effects of lobbying's influence on politics. Ofc, few others would get behind it. But if that is not an example of some one willing to not only do something for the people (at the cost of a very lucrative future career prospect after her own political career) but also having a willingness to work together with political rivals, I don't know what you are looking for in a representative.

Ted Cruz is one of my direct representatives and too far right for my support, I can respect times like the above where he shows a care for politics by the people. That was before he did a full 180 from vocally calling Trump out to securing his seat in the senate by kissing the ring. If our crazy corrupt AG Ken Paxton wins Cornyn's senate seat -- and it looks like he will -- it will make Cruz look like a political saint.

Re: A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

#76

Post by selimthegrim »

1659447091 wrote: post #75
selimthegrim wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AOC? Really?

What about her do you find fake or uncaring for the people? She's a bit too left on some things for my personal taste, but I find her reasonable and still un-jaded/un-corrupted by her time in politics -- so far, time will tell if she caves like so many other who refuse to get out when they stop caring about the people they represent and only care to kiss the ring that stuffs their pockets. I would see her a vote wort…

I was agreeing with you. I was asking GP why he thought ill of her.

Re: A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

#78

Post by Ygg2 »

estearum wrote: post #74
Ygg2 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What’s the counterfactual? The division in American weren't created by a foreign entity. The class war simply never ended. If you're rich you want to keep less rich off your lawn. So you let the guys with torches fight the guys with pitchforks, by convincing they are each other's enemy. > IMO it’s extremely naive to believe that information ops for some reason wouldn’t be effective in our own country. It's another…

> The division in American weren't created by a foreign entity. The class war simply never ended. You're stating this as if class tensions preclude the existence or effectiveness of foreign information operations. Do you actually believe that to be true? Frankly you are not thinking very hard if you're making definitive monocausal statements about something like "divisiveness" in America. Class tensions hurt us, race…

> You're stating this as if class tensions preclude the existence or effectiveness of foreign information operations. Do you actually believe that to be true?

I'm saying, what could Russians possibly do that Americans aren't already doing to themselves? Look at: The War on drugs, The War on terror, and omnipresent surveillance. These weren't instituted by Russian agents.

And if Russia was that omnipotent, then their "special op in Ukraine" would actually be a few days "special OP".

Whatever paltry ops Russia has is like a drop in the ocean compared to what the US (or other actors) are doing on US.

Re: A dark money group is funding high-profile Democratic influencers

#79

Post by estearum »

Ygg2 wrote: post #78
estearum wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The division in American weren't created by a foreign entity. The class war simply never ended. You're stating this as if class tensions preclude the existence or effectiveness of foreign information operations. Do you actually believe that to be true? Frankly you are not thinking very hard if you're making definitive monocausal statements about something like "divisiveness" in America. Class tensions hurt us, race…

> You're stating this as if class tensions preclude the existence or effectiveness of foreign information operations. Do you actually believe that to be true? I'm saying, what could Russians possibly do that Americans aren't already doing to themselves? Look at: The War on drugs, The War on terror, and omnipresent surveillance. These weren't instituted by Russian agents. And if Russia was that omnipotent, then their…

Who said they're doing things Americans aren't already doing to themselves? It wasn't me! In fact I said the precise opposite: they generally exploit pre-existing divisions.

Who said Russia is omnipotent? Also wasn't me!

> Whatever paltry ops Russia has is like a drop in the ocean compared to what the US (or other actors) are doing on US.

This, however, is an actual assertive claim of fact. Can you tell me any other intelligence services that we know has assets invited to the White House on a regular basis in order to do the actions they were hired by Russia to do?

If no, then I don't think you have evidence to substantiate this claim.

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