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Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

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Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#71
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Soon we'll start having juniors who started out with this stuff. But who will hire them? Businesses are ramping down from hiring juniors, since apparently a few good seniors with AI can replace them (in the minds of the people doing the hiring). Or is it that when all of the previous batch of seniors have retired or died of old age, businesses will have no option but to hire juniors trained "the new way", without a…

> But who will hire them? Anyone who wants a competitive advantage? My claim is that the gap between junior and senior has temporarily widened, which is why someone who previously would want to hire juniors might not right now. But I expect it will narrow as a generation that learned on this stuff comes into the fold, probably to a smaller gap than existed pre-LLM. I think it will also narrow if the tools continue to…

> Anyone who wants a competitive advantage?

Do you mean long-term vision? Short-term the advantage is in hiring only seniors, but do you mean companies will foresee trouble looming ahead and "waste" money on juniors just to avert this disaster?

My own feeling is that this could become like a sort of... well, I recently heard of the term "population time bomb", and it was eye-opening for me. How once it starts rolling, it's incredibly hard/impossible to revert, etc.

So what if we have some sort of "experience time bomb" here? Businesses stop hiring juniors. Seniors are needed to make AI work, but their experience isn't passed on because... who to pass it to? And then juniors won't have this wealth of "on the job experience" to be able to smell AI disaster and course-correct. The kind of experience you learn from actual work, not books.

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#72
post #69

I believe choosing a well known problem space in a well known language certainly influenced a lot of the behavior. AIs usefulness is correlated strongly with its training data and there’s no doubt been a significant amount of data about both the problem space and Python. I’d love to see how this compares when either the problem space is different or the language/ecosystem is different. It was a great read regardless!

One of my test queries for AI models is to ask it for an 8 bit asm function to do something that was invented recently enough that there is unlikely to be an implementation yet. Multiplying two 24 bit posits in 8-bit Avr for instance. No models have succeeded yet, but usually because they try and put more than 8 bits into a register. Algorithmically it seems like they are on the right track but they don't seem to be…

Do you provide this context or just ask the model to one-shot the problem?

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#73
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's called "reviewing code." I'm not taking any kind of responsibility for code that I haven't written myself.

You're not just hitting go and reviewing code though. If someone asked how I built a side project and I said "reviewing code" it would make no sense.

> If someone asked how I built a side project Then you might have to say the truth: that you didn't build it, but Claude/OpenAI/Gemini built it under your supervision.

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#74
post #34
post #21

Great article, though I'm still reading it as it's a mammoth read! A side note: as it's been painfully pointed out to me, "vibe coding" means not reading the code (ever!). We need a term for coding with LLMs exclusively, but also reviewing the code they output at each step.

We could revive the old CASE acronym ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Computer-aided_software_engine... ). ;)

SWITCH: SoftWare Implementation Through Computer & Human

BASE: Brain And Silicon Engineering

CLASS: Computer/Llm-Assisted Software Specification

STRUCT: Scripting Through Recurrent User/Computer Teamup

ELSE: Electronically Leveraged Software Engineering

VOID: Very Obvious Intelligence Deficit

Okay maybe not that last one

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#75

If I was told I'd be working with a fellow programmer who would make all the mistakes listed in Section 5 of the article, I'd have to say "no thanks". Yet the author ends with "I don’t think I will ever code again without the assistance of an AI model". He's a lot more thick-skinned than I.

What would you expect from "AI guy vibing AI code for AI application"? Marco warned you about the "AI echo chamber" from the outset - and he kept his promise :-)

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#76
post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of my test queries for AI models is to ask it for an 8 bit asm function to do something that was invented recently enough that there is unlikely to be an implementation yet. Multiplying two 24 bit posits in 8-bit Avr for instance. No models have succeeded yet, but usually because they try and put more than 8 bits into a register. Algorithmically it seems like they are on the right track but they don't seem to be…

Do you provide this context or just ask the model to one-shot the problem?

A clear description of the problem, but one-shot.

Something along the lines of

Can you generate 8-bit AVR assembly code to multiply two 24 bit posit numbers

You get some pretty funny results from the models that have no idea what a posit is. It's usually pretty clear to tell if they know what they are supposed to be doing. I haven't had a success yet (haven't tried for a while though). Some of them have come pretty close, but usually it's the trying to squeeze more than 8 bits of data into a register is what brings them down.

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#77

If I was told I'd be working with a fellow programmer who would make all the mistakes listed in Section 5 of the article, I'd have to say "no thanks". Yet the author ends with "I don’t think I will ever code again without the assistance of an AI model". He's a lot more thick-skinned than I.

[deleted]

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#78
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you provide this context or just ask the model to one-shot the problem?

A clear description of the problem, but one-shot. Something along the lines of Can you generate 8-bit AVR assembly code to multiply two 24 bit posit numbers You get some pretty funny results from the models that have no idea what a posit is. It's usually pretty clear to tell if they know what they are supposed to be doing. I haven't had a success yet (haven't tried for a while though). Some of them have come pretty c…

Yeah, so it’d be interesting to see if provided the correct context/your understanding of its error pattern, it can accomplish this.

One thing you learn quickly about working with LLMs if they have these kind of baked-in biases, some of which are very fixed and tied to their very limited ability to engage in novel reasoning (cc François Chollet), while others are far more loosely held/correctable. If it sticks with the errant patten, even when provided the proper context, it probably isn’t something an off-the-shelf model can handle.

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#79

I believe choosing a well known problem space in a well known language certainly influenced a lot of the behavior. AIs usefulness is correlated strongly with its training data and there’s no doubt been a significant amount of data about both the problem space and Python. I’d love to see how this compares when either the problem space is different or the language/ecosystem is different. It was a great read regardless!

I've had a lot of good luck with Julia, on high performance data pipelines.

Write a blog post about this! Would love to read it.

Re: Vibe coding as a coding veteran: from 8-bit assembly to English-as-code

#80
post #53
post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Since reading code is harder than writing it, Reading bad code is harder than writing bad code. Reading good code is easier than writing good code.

I beg to differ.

Why is reading code harder than writing it?
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