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Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

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Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#71
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One thing that has changed for me personally is that these days if I’m parsing XML, I might just tell AI to write a parser that can handle these 5 XML files. It might load up a library or it might just roll its own, but one thing that is not going to happen is that I’m not building some beautiful well engineered XML parser which I then open source. I wonder if that is what’s going on?

That sounds worse than using an xml library to parse something

not for hackers

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#72
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm speaking just to coding productivity. I think AI does very little for business development or creativity type issues. People should realize that denying that AI can boost productivity in coding makes it look like they don't know how to use it, or believe in some conspiracy that no one is actually benefitting and it's all market hype from tech bros.

I admit that I don't know how to use it and it does seem like marketing hype and tech bros with some mild value and I'm waiting to be proven wrong and crushed, John Henry the Steel Driving Man style, and it's just not happening.

There are a lot of different niches to software development. It could be that your specific niche isn't seeing much benefit yet. However, continuing to hold onto a view that AI is hype garbage could very possibly hurt your career in the near future.

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#73
post #10

If AI is that good, can someone code a good XML library with AI? The spec is available. If AI is that good, there should be an explosion of Open Source projects of good quality. Neither of those is happening.

Many people are seeing huge gains in coding productivity with AI. If you're not one of those people it might be useful to evaluate why you aren't experiencing any benefits, instead of claiming that there are none.

The people I know who are experiencing these gains were never more than juniors in skills, despite the number of years they've been on the job.

Makes me evaluate indeed.

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#74
post #10

If AI is that good, can someone code a good XML library with AI? The spec is available. If AI is that good, there should be an explosion of Open Source projects of good quality. Neither of those is happening.

[dead]

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#75
post #27
post #10

If AI is that good, can someone code a good XML library with AI? The spec is available. If AI is that good, there should be an explosion of Open Source projects of good quality. Neither of those is happening.

Open source projects left and right are banning contributors from using AI.

They have no way to actually verify that so it's just marketing to luddites.

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#76
post #10

If AI is that good, can someone code a good XML library with AI? The spec is available. If AI is that good, there should be an explosion of Open Source projects of good quality. Neither of those is happening.

Can I just remind everyone that GPT was released not even 3 years ago yet. It's been only 2 full years since GPT was released.

I get that people are anxious, worried, and are going through the "cycles of grief", but do you really think that in another 2 years, let alone 5 it won't be able to code a good XML library? We are just going to have to see how things go, because they are clearly going to go, whether we want or not.

And what does open source and the quality of projects have to do with it? There were bad open source projects before GPT's release.

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Many people are seeing huge gains in coding productivity with AI. I don't want to speak for the person you replied to, but I think that their main point is... are they? I see lots of articles about huge increases in productivity, but I think it's fair to argue that we've yet to see the huge increases in useful products that would surely (we hope) result from that if it were true.

I'm speaking just to coding productivity. I think AI does very little for business development or creativity type issues. People should realize that denying that AI can boost productivity in coding makes it look like they don't know how to use it, or believe in some conspiracy that no one is actually benefitting and it's all market hype from tech bros.

If they were, where are their products and open source projects? Let's circle back.

One thing I've noticed about the super-AI enthusiasts on HN is that not a single one ever have a single comment linking to a repo of work they've made with it.

I check. I actually always do because I'm really keen to learn how to use these magical super-AI workflows. I've watched streams, replicated clause MD files, tried all the context tricks.

I'm not even saying AI doesn't help, it's great for getting me over the blank page writer's block. It's just not great at much else.

So I've just checked your comments and not only do you not have any examples of your super-duper AI skills, but it looks like you've been in the industry less than a year, graduating from a PhD last year?

You also admit it took you a week trying to debug a problem before an AI fixed it for you. Because you'd missed some parentheses in an algo.

I'm not trying to shame you, but that does signal your inexperience. If you'd have made the code well and easy to test, you should have spotted your bad algo quickly.

So is it that we're all bad at using AI? Or is it that AI benefits inexperienced programmers more?

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#78
post #17
post #10

If AI is that good, can someone code a good XML library with AI? The spec is available. If AI is that good, there should be an explosion of Open Source projects of good quality. Neither of those is happening.

I suspect somebody could. But why? Do you need a new XML library? I don't. And if you don't need one, why write one? If there is no specific use case in mind, how do you even determine what dimension "good" is measured on?

We do actually, since the xslt library is under-maintained and has a looooooot of usage.

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#79
post #10

If AI is that good, can someone code a good XML library with AI? The spec is available. If AI is that good, there should be an explosion of Open Source projects of good quality. Neither of those is happening.

What issues did you run into when trying to build an XML library with AI? What was your workflow? How much time did you spend on that project?

Re: Andrew Ng says bottleneck in AI startups isn't coding – it's product management

#80
post #59
post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even the nomenclature is malevolently vague. PM conflates product management with project management and they are not the same.

But what's the difference? Does anyone actually know?

Yes, before MBAs took over, project management was more related to actually what happens in the project, GANT charts, stuff like Microsoft Project, resourcing team, setting the overall plan what goes where, who's available, when are vacations allowed,...

Product management was interfacing with the client, understanding what is actually supposed to be built as vision, understanding UI/UX before that became a field of its own, coordinating usability sessions, and so forth.

Naturally they have common touch points like what is possible from the vision, given the actual budget and available resources, expectation management and what not.

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