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Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

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Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#71

Post by risyachka »

ahussain wrote: post #67

It seems like agentic browsers will develop aa new set of core primitives (e.g. always ask for manual approval when spending money), and this flavor of security vulnerability will go away. Web browsers didn't begin with the same levels of security they have now.

Agenetic browsers is like a sealing tape fix of a high pressure water pipe - it should not exist.

If you want the agent to do things for you - there is literally zero reason to use a browser instead of an API.

Like 1 bulletproof API call vs clicking and scrolling and captcha and scam stores etc - how can this possibly be a good idea?

Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#72

Post by LtWorf »

takinola wrote: post #60
jaimebuelta wrote: post #23

I don't understand why we would ever want an agent to buy stuff for us. I understand, for example, search with intent to buy "I want to decorate a room. Find me a drawer, a table and four chairs that can fit in this space in matching colours for less than X dollars" But I want to do the final step to buy. In fact, I want to do the final SELECTION of stuff. How is agent buying groceries superior to have a grocery list…

Lots of senior executives, celebrities, etc have other people buy stuff for them all the time - flights, gifts, lunch, etc. The problem is this is very expensive so not available to most people. If agents reduce the cost and are mostly reliable, there will be a significantly large market for this service.

There is a 100% chance that companies paying a fee to the owner of the agent will be picked by the agents.

Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#73

Post by mh- »

otterley wrote: post #68
singleshot_ wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you were a lawyer, you’d think something slightly different when you heard the word agent than you would if you were a computer guy. The delta is the fact that under the law of agency, an agent has the power to bind the principal to a contract. If the lawyers didn’t have this definition in their head there would be no drive to make the software agent a purchaser, because it’s a stupid idea.

I am a lawyer. I understood your first paragraph but didn’t understand the second. It reads like a drive-by shitpost, utterly lacking substance.

I believe half of the comments here are just dumping on AI-related ideas because they see it as their duty to counter the hyperbolic claims about capabilities being tossed around.

I enjoy reading both sides of the argument when the arguments make sense. This is something else.

Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#74

Post by taormina »

anal_reactor wrote: post #32
jaimebuelta wrote: post #23

I don't understand why we would ever want an agent to buy stuff for us. I understand, for example, search with intent to buy "I want to decorate a room. Find me a drawer, a table and four chairs that can fit in this space in matching colours for less than X dollars" But I want to do the final step to buy. In fact, I want to do the final SELECTION of stuff. How is agent buying groceries superior to have a grocery list…

Imagine an agent being a roommate. They see that toilet paper is running out, they go to the supermarket, they buy more, they charge you money. All without you saying a word. Sure, it might not be your favorite brand, or the price might not be optimal, but realistically, the convenience of not having to think about buying toilet paper is definitely worth the price of having your roommate choose the details. After all…

The idea has been tried before and it failed because people don’t actually want this product at the scale the inventors thought. Amazon has never stopped doing this. Adding an element of indeterminism to the mix doesn’t make this a better product. Imagine what the LLM is going to hallucinate with your credit card attached.

Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#75

Post by feoren »

dumbfounder wrote: post #54
AlexandrB wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Enjoy it while you can. Messing with which products get purchased by these agents is such a no-brainer revenue stream for AI companies.

Then I will use a different service. I think this will be harder to monopolize than search.

You will have a 3rd party agent, in your home, that you get your news and information from, controlled by a for-profit entity, literally conspiring against you, the product, to squeeze you for every cent in your bank account, to put you in debt, to funnel your money directly to its masters. A Grima Wormtongue at your shoulder at all times, making your decisions for you, controlling your access to information, a slave to a company whose entire goal is to capture your attention and money and prevent you from ever learning anything negative about anyone who pays them money, and ever learning anything positive about anyone who they don't like. And you're going to make completely rational decisions?

Why do we all keep making the same obvious mistakes over and over? Once you are the product, thousands of highly paid experts will spend 40+ hours per week thinking of new ways to covertly exploit you for profit. They will be much better at it than you're giving them credit for.

Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#76

Post by mh- »

takinola wrote: post #60
jaimebuelta wrote: post #23

I don't understand why we would ever want an agent to buy stuff for us. I understand, for example, search with intent to buy "I want to decorate a room. Find me a drawer, a table and four chairs that can fit in this space in matching colours for less than X dollars" But I want to do the final step to buy. In fact, I want to do the final SELECTION of stuff. How is agent buying groceries superior to have a grocery list…

Lots of senior executives, celebrities, etc have other people buy stuff for them all the time - flights, gifts, lunch, etc. The problem is this is very expensive so not available to most people. If agents reduce the cost and are mostly reliable, there will be a significantly large market for this service.

I agree. I'm confused that this idea is even controversial. I would absolutely use it in the way you're describing. I've wanted something like this since around when Alexa/Echo launched.

Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#78

Post by LtWorf »

Paradigma11 wrote: post #36
anal_reactor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine an agent being a roommate. They see that toilet paper is running out, they go to the supermarket, they buy more, they charge you money. All without you saying a word. Sure, it might not be your favorite brand, or the price might not be optimal, but realistically, the convenience of not having to think about buying toilet paper is definitely worth the price of having your roommate choose the details. After all…

Sure, but why would you use a nondeterministic LLM for that? LLMs can do things that we cant reasonably do with deterministic software. But everything that can be done deterministically should be done deterministically.

> why would you use a nondeterministic LLM for that?

To trick investors that they are going to get their money back and some more I presume.

Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#79

Post by jkrom3 »

jaimebuelta wrote: post #23

I don't understand why we would ever want an agent to buy stuff for us. I understand, for example, search with intent to buy "I want to decorate a room. Find me a drawer, a table and four chairs that can fit in this space in matching colours for less than X dollars" But I want to do the final step to buy. In fact, I want to do the final SELECTION of stuff. How is agent buying groceries superior to have a grocery list…

One other ancillary benefit is no more “impulse” buying. Unless of course the AI gets incentivized to do it, it will then bubble that impulse buy up to the consumers UI.

Re: Scamlexity: When agentic AI browsers get scammed

#80

Post by ewhanley »

nemomarx wrote: post #33
anal_reactor wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Imagine an agent being a roommate. They see that toilet paper is running out, they go to the supermarket, they buy more, they charge you money. All without you saying a word. Sure, it might not be your favorite brand, or the price might not be optimal, but realistically, the convenience of not having to think about buying toilet paper is definitely worth the price of having your roommate choose the details. After all…

if my roommate charged me for toilet paper they picked out I would want to talk to them about the brand they go for and other details, at which point a lot of the overhead is back isn't it?

That's sort of the tradeoff, though. You get the convenience of having tp show up without having to to through the steps of shopping for it. Except in extreme cases, it seems likely your roommate will pick something that is effectively a commodity at a reasonable price. If you want granular control over brand, features, and pricing, you'll have to pay for it in time and/or money.
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