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I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

miguelconner.substack.com

71–80 of 95 posts

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#71
post #20

I think that the author was using Anki incorrectly, and that led them to the spurious conclusion that "Anki is dead". I also have attempted to use Anki this way- using someone else's deck to try to force myself to learn something new. But that doesn't work, because it is just memorizing random symbols, as they noted in the article ("The enemy is the static card"). For example in maths learning, memorizing arbitrary t…

I think people underrate the utility of a premade deck when constructed well and used appropriately.

A use case I've found is if you can find a deck that corresponds to a book you're reading.

I found a deck for the Rust book and it's structured such that you can see cards about things in the order you read about them. You simply read the book as usual, learning from your reading and entering code into a terminal as instructed, and then test you understanding with the cards.

When you end up reviewing older cards, you end up getting the benefits of putting them in long term memory but you also get the opportunity to make more connections as you revisit concepts which has its own benefits for deepening understanding.

I've found this makes reading the book 10x more effective. I get so much more out of it.

This all depends on having a source from which you're learning and the deck is just for testing understanding.

But yes anytime you're using Anki to learn/understand instead of to remember, you're likely misusing it. Anki is a tool for memory.

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#72
post #71
post #20

I think that the author was using Anki incorrectly, and that led them to the spurious conclusion that "Anki is dead". I also have attempted to use Anki this way- using someone else's deck to try to force myself to learn something new. But that doesn't work, because it is just memorizing random symbols, as they noted in the article ("The enemy is the static card"). For example in maths learning, memorizing arbitrary t…

I think people underrate the utility of a premade deck when constructed well and used appropriately. A use case I've found is if you can find a deck that corresponds to a book you're reading. I found a deck for the Rust book and it's structured such that you can see cards about things in the order you read about them. You simply read the book as usual, learning from your reading and entering code into a terminal as i…

That sounds like an awesome experience. Can you please share the links to the deck and the book?

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#73
post #27

Anki isn’t dead, it’s just LLMs might be a better tool in many ways. Not everything must be all or nothing.

I would go further to say that anki just gets an update where you can now have more dynamic context surrounding the words on cards. Just bold the target word. The same font is also something that can be easily fixed.

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#74
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underrate the utility of a premade deck when constructed well and used appropriately. A use case I've found is if you can find a deck that corresponds to a book you're reading. I found a deck for the Rust book and it's structured such that you can see cards about things in the order you read about them. You simply read the book as usual, learning from your reading and entering code into a terminal as i…

That sounds like an awesome experience. Can you please share the links to the deck and the book?

When anyone mentions the Rust book, they're talking about the recommended place to start in the Rust community: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/

To find a shared deck, I usually go here: https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks

Search for "rust".

You'll find two decks with 550-560 cards.

The older one was the original and whoever created it did most of the work and should be blessed by the heavens.

The newer one took the older one, and replaced the screenshots of code with markdown equivalents so they could be rendered by Anki while saving memory. You can see this in the difference in the number of images between the two decks. This is the one I'd download and use.

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#75

This is why I built Manabi Reader (currently only for Japanese) https://reader.manabi.io It helps you discover reading material suited to your current knowledge. It’s better to acquire new words within colorful contexts, and then use flashcards to review them after learning the material. (It has its own flashcard companion app or you can use Anki.) Soon I am working on making the activity of reading words in native t…

> only for Japanese and only for Apple devices...

Correct

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#76
post #35
post #20

I think that the author was using Anki incorrectly, and that led them to the spurious conclusion that "Anki is dead". I also have attempted to use Anki this way- using someone else's deck to try to force myself to learn something new. But that doesn't work, because it is just memorizing random symbols, as they noted in the article ("The enemy is the static card"). For example in maths learning, memorizing arbitrary t…

Yeah. Anki (and flashcards in general) are great for helping you remember something _you_ learned (from a book, video, class, etc.). Not for transferring knowledge someone else learned. Writing my own cards as I'm learning is the only way I've found it effective.

First learn the material. Then use SRS to schedule the practice of effortfully recalling the material just before you would have forgotten it.

I think too many people use SRS to learn the material instead.

As I recall, the creator of Supermemo had a list of 20 suggestions or so, in which he urged people to first comprehend the information; then to learn it; then to memorize it; and then to rehearse it (SRS) so as not to forget it.

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#77
I strongly agree with the author's claim that Anki incentivizes you toward recognizing the target sentence, but not with his main claim that it's dead. For context, I've been using Anki about 2 years and ~180k reviews.

Grinding the same thing over and over works well for some things but overtrains for others. I've noticed that I'm overtrained on the default sans-serif Japanese fonts, for example, which causes slight but noticeable pain when I switch to a different font - especially a more traditional serif one which tends to have a lot more visual information. Even if you know all the stroke order stuff, suddenly switching to a new font to read hundreds or thousands of characters is a lot of extra input for your visual cortex to process. It bothers me enough that I'm switching things around to match the JLPT exam typefaces as closely as possible so I don't feel it dragging me down under the pressure of a ticking clock and high stakes.

On the other hand I think the Anki engine is more than flexible enough to accommodate dynamic cards, and it still works great for multimedia and the like. I'm leery of handing too much of this over to LLMs both for the hallucination risk the author mentions, and the reliability of the audio generation - pitch and rhythm are bad on LLM-generated audio in English and I suspect they'd be even less reliable in Japanese. A few sentences sound fine but when you start doing it on longer texts or across thousands of sentences it's gonna creep in, and for language learning toxic input is deadly.

IME the best thing once you get past the beginner stage is to read as much as you can. The biggest day-to-day gripe I have with Anki (but which is not actually the fault of the software) is you're learning words and/or sentence patterns in isolation, so the work you do in understanding a sentence is thrown away immediately. You might spend 3 minutes pondering the intricacies of 'if I don't leave the house by 7am, I'll be late for my train', but then the next sentence is 'I savored the sound of my enemies' screams while watching their ship sink.' In contrast to the i+1 competency issue, you're also missing a +1 contextual issue - the little exercise you did to understand the first sentence doesn't carry you forward into the next one, so you're starting from zero every time. Even in the exam situation, you're tested on 4 or 5 questions related to each written or audio subject matter which can help you maintain focus even where there are gaps in your understanding. I think the constant fragmentation of attention by individual sentence cards is bad for concentration and retention. Although Anki allows for sequences of cards to be presented together by the deck editor, this context gets broken up both by your daily card limit and by the fact that review order has little or nothing to do with the initial order of presentation.

By contrast, when you're reading (even if it's just paragraphs or pages) new vocabulary items or grammatical structures tend to repeat and reinforce each other, you can draw contextual inferences about the meaning of unfamiliar words rather than just being given a meaning-token in isolation, and the new material is embedded in some sort of narrative or argumentative context. I've noticed that new vocabulary I pick up from reading beds in far faster than that from isolated word or sentence cards, where everything is isolated and the only context is 'that day's Anki session'. It's like the difference between enjoying a movie and and watching an endless succession of closeups from different scenes. You could work out the story from the jumbled sequence of closeups, but it would take a lot longer and not really be enjoyable or coherent-feeling.

In my view the best changes Anki could make in this regard is to get away from the deck as the main data structure and have an intermediate structure of sets, essentially sub-decks that have something in common and can reinforce each other. It would help a lot if there were better tagging options than just ctrl+1/2/3/4//5/6/7/8 too. I use a few for noting cards I am having particular difficulty with (yellow or red) and a few others for categories, but there just aren't enough of them. I would love to able to pull tag sets of just school stuff one day, just work stuff another, just transit cards another day and so on.

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#78
post #8

The Japanese immersion language learning rabbit hole goes very very deep, and it super interesting. I'm writing some info about it here because I just don't want it to be lost to the sands of the digital times: It all started way back when with this guy named Khatzumoto who did his own guerilla academic research, for lack for a better word - and proving it by getting fluent in 18 months. The theories were based in co…

I don't know if the same people are involved, but this is a more comprehensive and up-to-date website built around the same concepts that I came across recently, and where I would suggest anyone starting out go first.

https://tatsumoto.neocities.org

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#79
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think people underrate the utility of a premade deck when constructed well and used appropriately. A use case I've found is if you can find a deck that corresponds to a book you're reading. I found a deck for the Rust book and it's structured such that you can see cards about things in the order you read about them. You simply read the book as usual, learning from your reading and entering code into a terminal as i…

That sounds like an awesome experience. Can you please share the links to the deck and the book?

Somewhat related: you might dig Andy Matuschak's Quantum Country project, which aims to incorporate a text's flash cards inside the text itself.

https://quantum.country/

Later edit: I should have said "Andy Matuschak and Michael Nielson's".

Re: I did 98,000 Anki reviews. Anki is already dead

#80
post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like an awesome experience. Can you please share the links to the deck and the book?

When anyone mentions the Rust book, they're talking about the recommended place to start in the Rust community: https://doc.rust-lang.org/book/ To find a shared deck, I usually go here: https://ankiweb.net/shared/decks Search for "rust". You'll find two decks with 550-560 cards. The older one was the original and whoever created it did most of the work and should be blessed by the heavens. The newer one took the olde…

Thanks a lot!
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