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UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

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Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#71

Post by perihelions »

In the Oxford philosophy-exam thread from yesterday, I was distracted by question #3: "Should anonymous posting online be forbidden?"[0] Never mind the quality of essay you (or your machine surrogate) could write about that. The striking thing is this is now within firmly within the Overton Window in British academia—this is what they seemingly teach their cultural elites in their elite schools. In place of Enlightenment* values, they're normalizing the inversion of them—normalizing thinking as an autocrat, in viewing the general public as an unsafe factor and as an adversary.

[0] https://substack-post-media.s3.amazonaws.com/public/images/c...

*(A not-small body of which were famously published anonymously in order to escape ostracization. Were these Oxford philosophers to take their own advice, they would forbid all volumes mentioning Voltaire or Spinoza from their libraries).

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#72

Post by tomatocracy »

yungporko wrote: post #30
khalic wrote: post #9

What’s with england and its complete lack of response to this kind of power grabs?

there's really nothing anybody can do. protests dont work, riots dont work, petitions dont work, and theres nobody else to vote for who isn't also a cunt.

I think the most effective solution is to work to ensure that people who have sensible views and are able to think in a reasoned way on topics like this stand for election themselves.

As much as many people have distaste for the existing parties, a few people getting involved and changing the parties from the inside on one or two topics like this (which are not party political in nature) is likely to be much more effective than standing as or voting for an independent, complaining or protesting.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#73

Post by khalic »

andai wrote: post #60
gambiting wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've lived in the UK for 15 years now and the complete political apathy is probably what bothers me the most about this country. Few years back when they made it so that every ISP had to log your entire browsing history and keep it for a year and 17 different government agencies(including DEFRA, the agriculture ministry!) can access it without a warrant, barely anyone cared. Wasn't really mentioned in public media, o…

> this kind of economic assassination of entire generation of people It's worldwide, is the issue. A national government cannot solve the problems created by multinational investment firms. On a related note, central banks have expressed their desire to increase unemployment.

> A national government cannot solve the problems created by multinational investment firms.

This hits hard, I never framed the issue like this. We really are living a corpo-fascist cyberpunk nightmare aren’t we? Minus the purple neons sadly

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#74

Post by matthewmacleod »

ap99 wrote: post #18

For the Americans looking at this act, you're maybe putting it in the context of American politics and thinking who cares if the porn sites have my face or id. But in the UK you can be arrested and jailed for saying something online that offends someone else.

I'm sure you realise this, but you are of course massively and deliberately oversimplifying to the point of being misleading.

Like… it's okay to complain about bad legislation without misrepresenting it. It's bad enough that you don't need to make shit up about it.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#75

Post by foldr »

khalic wrote: post #66
tene80i wrote: post #59

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe the point being made is that you are saying England when it is the entire UK under discussion. You are missing out three of the four nations of the U.K.

Don’t they have their own governments of sorts? Also, I would never accuse Irish or Scott’s of being passive in their response to political changes…

The OSA applies to all of the UK.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#76

Post by crote »

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #40
dustincoates wrote: post #5

Without passing judgment on the act, this is incredibly misleading. I found the source of the original quotes[0], and they are taken quite out of context. From the article: >First, we are told, the relevant secretary of state (Michelle Donelan) expressed “concern” that the legislation might whack sites such as Amazon instead of Pornhub. In response, officials explained that the regulation in question was “not primari…

There oddly seems to be a concerted effort online to paint the UK as some kind of failing police state recently. This narrative seems to have really taken off with some Americans, who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets. Meanwhile, Brits just look on at this narrative wondering what the hell they're talking about. Look, I…

> who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets

It's a bit hard to argue otherwise when the draconian arrests are well-documented by pretty much every single media outlet.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#77

Post by throwaway97202 »

crinkly wrote: post #58
mcjiggerlog wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There oddly seems to be a concerted effort online to paint the UK as some kind of failing police state recently. This narrative seems to have really taken off with some Americans, who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets. Meanwhile, Brits just look on at this narrative wondering what the hell they're talking about. Look, I…

If it was a police state, JD Vance wouldn’t be getting it on his holiday here from protesters and video vans driving around and being refused service in a pub. It could end up that way but we’re not there yet. If we do get there we tend to make the French look like amateur protestors (look up poll tax riots). I’m less worried about a police state than a corporate dystopia. The attendee list at Trump’s inauguration wo…

>If it was a police state, JD Vance wouldn’t be getting it on his holiday here from protesters and video vans driving around and being refused service in a pub.

"Is it true that there is freedom of speech in the USSR, just like in the USA?"

"Yes. In the USA, you can stand in front of the White House in Washington, DC, and yell, "Down with Ronald Reagan," and you will not be punished. Equally, you can also stand in Red Square in Moscow and yell, "Down with Ronald Reagan," and you will not be punished."

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#78

Post by Yeul »

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #40
dustincoates wrote: post #5

Without passing judgment on the act, this is incredibly misleading. I found the source of the original quotes[0], and they are taken quite out of context. From the article: >First, we are told, the relevant secretary of state (Michelle Donelan) expressed “concern” that the legislation might whack sites such as Amazon instead of Pornhub. In response, officials explained that the regulation in question was “not primari…

There oddly seems to be a concerted effort online to paint the UK as some kind of failing police state recently. This narrative seems to have really taken off with some Americans, who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets. Meanwhile, Brits just look on at this narrative wondering what the hell they're talking about. Look, I…

I'm not American and I find the English legal system hilarious.

In practically all countries a bunch of smart people got together in the 19th century to write a constitution but the British thought that they were above such petty concerns.

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#79

Post by doublerabbit »

khalic wrote: post #37
yungporko wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's really nothing anybody can do. protests dont work, riots dont work, petitions dont work, and theres nobody else to vote for who isn't also a cunt.

I’m just going to say it: you are wrong, protests, public pressure and civil disobedience are why you have many of the right you have today. I get you don’t have the will/energy/possibility to do anything, but don’t go around telling lies about the usefulness of public intervention.

> you are wrong, protests, public pressure and civil disobedience are why you have many of the right you have today.

Once upon a time, yes. But they don't work in the modern world we live in now.

Show me a successful protest that achieved change in the past ten years?

Re: UK government states that 'safety' act is about influence over public discourse

#80

Post by kristianc »

mcjiggerlog wrote: post #40
dustincoates wrote: post #5

Without passing judgment on the act, this is incredibly misleading. I found the source of the original quotes[0], and they are taken quite out of context. From the article: >First, we are told, the relevant secretary of state (Michelle Donelan) expressed “concern” that the legislation might whack sites such as Amazon instead of Pornhub. In response, officials explained that the regulation in question was “not primari…

There oddly seems to be a concerted effort online to paint the UK as some kind of failing police state recently. This narrative seems to have really taken off with some Americans, who now seem completely convinced that the UK government is some kind of totalitarian oppressor who are snatching people off the streets. Meanwhile, Brits just look on at this narrative wondering what the hell they're talking about. Look, I…

> Look, I'm against this legislation too, but if you actually live in the UK or even just consume mainstream British media, you'd soon realise that this narrative that's being pushed is a distortion that doesn't match day to day reality.

The censorship in the UK isn't that overt. There's no masked gangs grabbing people off the street, what there are is government "nudge" units, media talking heads and government-aligned media trying to push you toward points of view acceptable to the establishment. We're the world leaders in manufactured consensus.

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