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Open Banking and Payments Competition

bitsaboutmoney.com

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Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#71

Post by graemep »

rkomorn wrote: post #44
AndrewDucker wrote: post #43

No mention of how open banking works outside of the US, where (in the UK) bank transfers are basically instantaneous and free, and I can happily retrieve my payments list to my budgeting app.

> and I can happily retrieve my payments list to my budgeting app Is this a UK thing? I've been searching for something like Mint/Quicken in the EU and haven't found anything worthwhile because there doesn't seem to be a standard for budgeting apps to connect to banks.

Open banking does that but it needs to be a provider.

Some banks let you download in formats that let you then import into something. I have imported a lot into Gnucash from a downloaded file but its not smooth or complete (narrative needed fixing).

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#72

Post by toenail »

WJW wrote: post #67
toenail wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a decentralized global ledger and can make instantaneous peer to peer payments to anyone on the planet. I'm not just my own bank, I participate in a system that replaces central banks and provides a money that isn't constantly devalued. It's called bitcoin.

So the miners safeguard your money (hopefully), they are also responsible for actually transmitting your money (hopefully), and you don't take any deposits or make loans to customers. You don't hold your own money, you don't manage transferring your own money, you basically don't do any of the things a bank does. How does that make you your own bank exactly?

Miners are not "responsible" for transmitting my money, that's on me, and I incentivize them. I'm also a miner btw. As I'm my own bank, and nobody elses, I obviously don't take deposits or make loans. I couldn't make "loans" as banks do anyway, as bank loans generate new money, and that's the main reason why I bitcoin. What's coming next, I don't wash cartel money, so I'm not a bank?

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#73

Post by toenail »

zaik wrote: post #65
toenail wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a decentralized global ledger and can make instantaneous peer to peer payments to anyone on the planet. I'm not just my own bank, I participate in a system that replaces central banks and provides a money that isn't constantly devalued. It's called bitcoin.

I don't receive my salary in Bitcoin and I can't pay my groceries, rent or taxes with it. People own Bitcoin because they expect prices to rise further, not for its utility.

Lol, I was paid in bitcoin and have paid for all kinds of stuff in bitcoin. That you don't is meaningless to me. People own Bitcoin because they know that fiat money is guaranteed to lose value. If you don't see the utility of having a money that can't be printed out of thin air, I congratulate you for being financially privileged.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#74

Post by toenail »

tossandthrow wrote: post #42
toenail wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I use a decentralized global ledger and can make instantaneous peer to peer payments to anyone on the planet. I'm not just my own bank, I participate in a system that replaces central banks and provides a money that isn't constantly devalued. It's called bitcoin.

Bitcoin can not yet be deemed currency by commonly understood principles for a currency: You can not pay your taxes, it is not a store of value (it is volatile), and it can not generally be used to transact (Good luck getting trader joe accepting bit coins). So that would not really constitute a bank that stores currency. (I have nothing on crypto currencies, btw., and if it gives a feeling of agency to use them I ap…

> commonly understood principles for a currency

If you start from there, you'll never understand bitcoin. I own bitcoin precisely because it is not what economists, bankers and politicians want me to own.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#75

Post by toenail »

astrange wrote: post #38
toenail wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My actual problem is that the central bank devalues the money I earned. I'm glad to hear that the financial system works for you, and that you have zero problems making transactions to anybody on the planet. That's not true for a lot of people.

The second law of thermodynamics devalues the money you earned. There's no way you can have $10 that always and forever buys the same things $10 currently does. Central banks keep its value higher than the alternative, as anyone who doesn't have oppositional defiance disorder would notice from the fact that we haven't had a Great Depression lately. Because it really gets devalued if there's an economic collapse and a…

Have you ever heard of gold? That didn't continuously lose value. I'm sorry to hear you believe the nonsense modern economists, bankers and politicians tell you.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#76

Post by jlokier »

elric wrote: post #33
gethly wrote: post #30

The entire banking industry is the most backwards, outdated and barely functioning sector in the whole world. I have no clue how we have not yet collapsed the financial system via some hack or basic data loss.

> I have no clue how we have not yet collapsed the financial system via some hack or basic data loss. Banks are pretty good at not losing data. They're also pretty good at layered security. I mean there's fraud and theft on all levels, but collapse-level events don't come from "a hack or basic data loss". They come from political incompetence and large scale economic events.

> Banks are pretty good at not losing data

Except for that day I logged into Barclays Bank (in the UK) and half the transactions were missing from the last several months of statements.

We're talking maybe 50 transactions just gone from the bank account ledger, which had long since been settled and previously downloaded (that's how I noticed).

To be fair to them, the transactions reappeared a few days later. But it took days, and had me quite worried.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#77

Post by elric »

gethly wrote: post #55
elric wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I have no clue how we have not yet collapsed the financial system via some hack or basic data loss. Banks are pretty good at not losing data. They're also pretty good at layered security. I mean there's fraud and theft on all levels, but collapse-level events don't come from "a hack or basic data loss". They come from political incompetence and large scale economic events.

> I mean there's fraud and theft on all levels you are confusing payment card issuers and processors with banks

I most certainly am not. But there's certainly fraud in those places too. There is all kinds of frauds within banking, from insider trading to cleverly hidden rounding errors being pocketed by software engineers, and everything in between.

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#78

Post by elric »

dahcryn wrote: post #59
elric wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> allowed to wall in their data with no API access There's PSD2 in the EU (or Eurozone? Not sure actually). Basically forces banks to open common APIs to encourage interopability and competition. However, it's not aimed at users but rather at companies in fintech building applications. Some banks (Bunq comes to mind) offer APIs to their customers for direct use, but most don't. The reason is obviously security. Peopl…

It's a great idea, but it's been killed off by the small print that was lobbied into the requirements Basically, banks force apps or users to require you fully revalidate user consent every 90 days. And it's quite an annoying process. That means any app or integration you want to build, requires 10 minutes of your time every 90 days or they stop working. It's killed many Fintech's. It all works on paper, but is draft…

Requiring up to date authentication in order to access a bank account makes sense though. Do you get annoyed at having to enter your PIN when using an ATM?

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#79

Post by ranger207 »

Kenji wrote: post #48
tossandthrow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin can not yet be deemed currency by commonly understood principles for a currency: You can not pay your taxes, it is not a store of value (it is volatile), and it can not generally be used to transact (Good luck getting trader joe accepting bit coins). So that would not really constitute a bank that stores currency. (I have nothing on crypto currencies, btw., and if it gives a feeling of agency to use them I ap…

Bitcoin is a better store of value than USD. Change my mind.

Bitcoin's high volatility means that it's impossible to predict exactly how much value one Bitcoin will have tomorrow, next month, next year, or next decade. USD has comparatively low volatility. It's possible, but very unlikely, for USD to go to zero tomorrow, and while the uncertainty around exactly how likely USD is to collapse increases as you look further towards the future, most people would consider it less likely for USD to collapse than Bitcoin. Since markets are made up of "most people", most people are more willing to accept USD to exchange value than they are Bitcoin. Therefore, USD is a better store of value than Bitcoin

Re: Open Banking and Payments Competition

#80

Post by tossandthrow »

toenail wrote: post #74
tossandthrow wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bitcoin can not yet be deemed currency by commonly understood principles for a currency: You can not pay your taxes, it is not a store of value (it is volatile), and it can not generally be used to transact (Good luck getting trader joe accepting bit coins). So that would not really constitute a bank that stores currency. (I have nothing on crypto currencies, btw., and if it gives a feeling of agency to use them I ap…

> commonly understood principles for a currency If you start from there, you'll never understand bitcoin. I own bitcoin precisely because it is not what economists, bankers and politicians want me to own.

I don't really know what the goal of this comment is?

This thread was not about understanding bitcoins - but banking.

> I own bitcoin precisely because it is not what economists, bankers and politicians want me to own.

It doesn't really make sense to own something just because someone else are saying you should not own it - but whatever floats your boat and as long as your own the consequences of your own actions.

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