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Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

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Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#71

The MBAs that outsourced camera production to APEC are long retired.

What they actually fumbled was the transition to digital. Keeping analog film/camera assembly in the US would only have led to Kodak running out of money even sooner.

What they actually fumbled was trying to become a pharmaceuticals company. They owned 100% of the digital market for 20+ years.

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#72

The MBAs that outsourced camera production to APEC are long retired.

What they actually fumbled was the transition to digital. Keeping analog film/camera assembly in the US would only have led to Kodak running out of money even sooner.

I don't know that they really fumbled anything. They had a pretty good set of digital cameras in the early 2000s. I owned one.

It's just the technology that was the underpinning of the entire company has outlived its usefulness. You don't see many companies making horseshoes today - but there were thousands 150 years ago. They didn't fumble anything - just no longer needed.

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#73
post #66

Not many people remember, but it wasn't that long ago that Kodak was "pivoting to crypto": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/KodakCoin At that point, it was pretty clear that they're on borrowed time. I'm surprised they had enough runway / credit to make it to 2025.

Crypto did pretty well during that timeframe. Likely, they didn't pivot hard enough to offset losses to the core business.

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And the mass market consumer digital camera market didn't last terribly long either and is effectively dead. It is now a high end hobby with low volume high margin production. Smartphone cameras and digital distribution of images would have killed them 10-20 years later anyway.

Given that Sony and Samsung make, basically, every smartphone cellphone camera sensor, it doesn't seem inconceivable that a more agile Kodak could have fully pivoted to producing cellphone camera sensors, and fully owned that segment, as well as adding value add services that took advantage of their printing expertise. Sending digital photos to Kodak for them to print and mail them back to you wouldn't have saved all…

Yes, I think if a television and casette-player company like Sony could succeed at pivoting into making CMOS imaging sensors, Kodak could certainly have done the same and beaten them to the punch.

As for executive pay, I think the biggest problem is that it often seems like the executive class gets richly rewarded whether they succeed or fail. Boeing's former CEO was rewarded more for his failures than most people earn for a lifetime of good performance.

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#75

> Kodak aims to conjure up cash by ceasing payments for its retirement pension plan I have always wondered, what happens to a pension plan when the company files for bankruptcy? What happens if the lump sum payment is not enough for retirees? Are they financially screwed until they die?

This is why the systems like what Australia has, with mandatory superannuation (401k accounts but better) is great. It makes the company pay the retirement plan amount for each worker, each pay. Then if the worker quits, they take their benefit with them. It's a 4 Trillion dollar industry in our country.

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#76

> Kodak aims to conjure up cash by ceasing payments for its retirement pension plan I have always wondered, what happens to a pension plan when the company files for bankruptcy? What happens if the lump sum payment is not enough for retirees? Are they financially screwed until they die?

Probably the PBGC partially covers the retirees through employer premiums payments and tax payer funds.

https://www.pbgc.gov/

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What they actually fumbled was the transition to digital. Keeping analog film/camera assembly in the US would only have led to Kodak running out of money even sooner.

I don't know that they really fumbled anything. They had a pretty good set of digital cameras in the early 2000s. I owned one. It's just the technology that was the underpinning of the entire company has outlived its usefulness. You don't see many companies making horseshoes today - but there were thousands 150 years ago. They didn't fumble anything - just no longer needed.

I agree with this, but as someone who occasionally shoots film I'm still very sad about it. There's still reasonable demand for film, I can walk into my local Target and pick up Fujifilm Fujicolor Superia 200 for $10 a roll. It's just really hard to scale down a business without imploding, but I firmly believe Kodak could have had a future as a boutique film supplier if they wanted to. It just wouldn't be super profitable.

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#78
post #4

It’s sad to see. As I understand it, digital photography forced camera companies to decide if they were principally about film or about photos and imaging. The competition in the image space was brutal, which phones winning the mass market by a huge margin. Those that quietly moved into recondite but valuable areas of technical specialisation did much better, but they’re not camera companies anymore.

Kodak give the world the first digital camera[1]. It took mismanagement on a gargantuan scale for them to fail in this manner. [1] https://www.kodak.com/en/company/page/photography-history/

That was in 1975. It took multiple decades for digital camera technology to become cheap and practical for the mass consumer market, and another decade or two before it was good enough to be taken seriously by professionals.

There was no upside at all in being first with this particular invention. No lessons to learn, other than "Keep working on this and try to grab all the patents, even though they will expire before anyone cares."

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One important point I think is that Kodak, at its core, was a huge company specialized in photography related chemistry . Not easy to turn a company around when the knowledge/qualifications/experience of most of your employees becomes almost worthless. Thats also what made it easier for others (like Corning) to pivot (presumably).

Fujifilm recognized that they were a chemistry company and partially pivoted to cosmetics.

There's a good, short 2012 Economist piece on how Fuji recognized its underlying strengths (chemistry company) better than Kodak, and made that part of their strategy since they recognized digital photography would not last.

https://archive.is/20250424104926/https://www.economist.com/...

Re: Kodak says it might have to cease operations [updated]

#80
post #68

Wait, Kodak is still around? I'm not trying to be a dick or shitpost, but I genuinely thought they collapsed after I heard nothing about KodakCoin after the initial announcement.

I use a lot of Kodak 35MM! They are still kicking around. They are kind of hard to find in my neck of the woods, so I mostly stick with Fuji anymore.
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