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Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

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Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#71

Post by zzrrt »

arp242 wrote: post #32
antonymoose wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my state I bring two forms of ID and a couple of bills to the DMV and I’m issued a same-day license? How does that compare to a notoriously unfriendly nation like Germany? In any case, my understanding is virtually any nation in Central and South America requires identification to vote. If the third-world poverty stricken nations make it work there is no reason the rich United States cannot.

You can't use your driving license under the proposed SAVE act, as it's not proof of citizenship. Only a few states offer "extended" driving licenses, which do, but also need to be requested separately in most (or all?) states that offer them IIRC. For every other state: you will have to use a passport, birth certificate, or a separate state ID card.

> Only a few states offer "extended" driving licenses, which do [prove your citizenship]

If anyone is wondering, an enhanced drivers license is not the same as a "REAL ID". A "REAL ID" does not indicate citizenship status, which the SAVE act requires.

https://campaignlegal.org/sites/default/files/2025-01/CLC%20...

https://www.sos.mn.gov/media/zzia53yr/033125-secretaries-of-...

https://www.dhs.gov/enhanced-drivers-licenses-what-are-they

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#72

Post by nerdponx »

celeritascelery wrote: post #65
nerdponx wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The kind of actual voter fraud that ID requirements would prevent is extremely rare. There are better ways to rig elections than hiring thousands of people to physically show up at different polling centers and vote several times under different names. Even disregarding the fact that voter ID laws are (and historically have been) widely abused to disenfranchise specific groups in the USA, what do you actually gain by…

> what do you actually gain by requiring ID? Preventing non-citizens from voting. Some counties in the US have almost half of the population who are non-citizens. It's great that we have so many people wanting to come to the states, but they can't vote until they become citizens. This is not a controversial issue anywhere except in the US.

https://www.migrationpolicy.org/content/noncitizen-voting-us...

> There is no evidence that unauthorized immigrants, green-card holders, or immigrants on temporary visas are voting in significant numbers, despite some claims that “millions” of noncitizens are voting in U.S. elections. In fact, audits by election officials and numerous studies reflect that voter fraud by noncitizens is extremely rare.

> A [Heritage Foundation database](https://electionfraud.heritage.org/search?combine=citizenshi...) of election fraud cases identified just 23 instances of noncitizen voting between 2003 and 2022.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#73

Post by ImJamal »

woodrowbarlow wrote: post #47
antonymoose wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In my state I bring two forms of ID and a couple of bills to the DMV and I’m issued a same-day license? How does that compare to a notoriously unfriendly nation like Germany? In any case, my understanding is virtually any nation in Central and South America requires identification to vote. If the third-world poverty stricken nations make it work there is no reason the rich United States cannot.

another angle is: if the ID costs money, no matter how trivial the amount, then it is effectively a ballot fee.

All states that require voter id have free ids that work for voting.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#74

Post by cosmic_cheese »

specialist wrote: post #56
Sniffnoy wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It is strange that showing ID to vote is controversial in the US and that providing basic ID to citizens for free to allow them to vote is a problem that seems difficult to solve (or want to solve). One of the blockers to a national ID system in the US, that would result in voter ID no longer posing any substantive obstacle to voting, has been anti-government paranoia; but another, if you're not aware, has been fun…

> associate the idea of a national ID with the "mark of the beast" This was absolutely true during the 2000s. The huge irony is that having a national ID (central authenticator issuing globally unique identifiers) is the only way to protect PII, at the field level, at rest. Per the Translucent Database strategy. Which I won't repeat here. Unless the peanut gallery develops a genuine interest. In other words, not havi…

> This was absolutely true during the 2000s.

There was plenty of it in the lead-up to 2000, too. I had a family member who in the late 90s got swept up in some of the religious internet mania surrounding the mark that was tying it to the Y2K bug and all sorts of other things. It remains some of the most bonkers stuff I’ve ever seen, even in the modern era of heightened internet craziness.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#75

Post by ImJamal »

tastyface wrote: post #21
samdoesnothing wrote: post #20

[flagged]

[flagged]

There are people pushing for non-citizens to vote in non-federal elections. One example is New York City where they literally passed a law to allow it. It was struck down because it violated New York's constitution though...

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#76

Post by triceratops »

jimbo808 wrote: post #27
tastyface wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

If you can't even prove you're an American by providing basic identification, you shouldn't be allowed vote. Democracy requires a system of voting that is trustworthy. Allowing people to vote based on who they say they are is not conducive to a trustworthy election.

So why aren't all these voter ID bills accompanied by lots of funding for photo ID offices? Election security is important. You can get perfectly secure elections by assuming no one is a citizen and denying everyone. But no one wants that. So do it right.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#77

Post by pogue »

gruez wrote: post #66
frakt0x90 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's an excellent documentary by Channel 5 (formerly All Gas No Brakes) where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bRGrKJofDaw

>where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible. That seems like the worst case scenario though? I don't think homeless people should be disenfranchised, but at the same time it's unfair to pretend the typical experience of getting a voter id resembles whatever the TV show is depicting either.

It can be incredibly difficult and time consuming to get a birth certificate if you have lost yours. If you work full time, you'd have to take off for an unknown time period (typically multiple hours) to stand in line at a court or other facility that provides them. In some cases, people just don't have the option to take that time off and/or lack vehicle access to get there. Then there's a fee to get a copy, lots of forms you and your relatives have to sign & get notarized. Finally, if you're successful, then you get the opportunity to make an appointment to wait at line at a DMV location. In Texas, they have severely limited hours since COVID.

I think it's become significantly worse since COVID & REAL ID requirements, but it's always been a Kafkaesque nightmare to try & get the proof of who you legally are. And, not to mention, it's a paper form that you can't just pull up digitally, so if you don't take precautions, it's easy to misplace.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#78

Post by triceratops »

samdoesnothing wrote: post #38
tastyface wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except studies have repeatedly shown that there is practically no voter fraud, because it's pretty easy to detect and people generally don't want to commit felonies for zero personal gain. *You* show me the proof of widespread voter fraud.

I don't trust any "study" on this topic because of how highly politicised it is. Is there anything stopping a person from going to a polling station, writing a fake name, and walking out with zero risk? No? Then you must assume there is some amount of fraud.

Where are the arrests and charges? If it's that bad we should see some people in jail by now.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#79

Post by pogue »

bjourne wrote: post #64

Honestly, what of it is left to undermine? It's billionaires, Israel, oil, and gun lobbies running the show.

There's still vast policy changes each side believes in and would choose if the shoe was on the other foot. We're seeing the entire dismantling of basic public health policies, vaccines, protection of our food supply & etc right now as just one example.

Re: Brennan Center for Justice Report: The Campaign to Undermine the Next Election

#80

Post by assword »

pogue wrote: post #77
gruez wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>where he tries to work with a group of homeless people in Las Vegas to get them papers and the process is extremely difficult. Like bordering on impossible. That seems like the worst case scenario though? I don't think homeless people should be disenfranchised, but at the same time it's unfair to pretend the typical experience of getting a voter id resembles whatever the TV show is depicting either.

It can be incredibly difficult and time consuming to get a birth certificate if you have lost yours. If you work full time, you'd have to take off for an unknown time period (typically multiple hours) to stand in line at a court or other facility that provides them. In some cases, people just don't have the option to take that time off and/or lack vehicle access to get there. Then there's a fee to get a copy, lots of…

Oh man the birth certificate thing is ridiculous. I had to get a new Id from scratch recently and it was the most painful process

The state I was born in decided to outsource the handling of birth certificates to some shit tier consulting firm.

In order to get my birth certificate shipped to me, I would have to wait over six months simply to process my request (ostensibly due to Covid, but this was 2023). It would have been quicker for me to walk hundreds of miles and get it in person. Thankfully I lucked out and found an old one.

Just a reminder that this is the shit politicians mean when they talk about privatizing government services.

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