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US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

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Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#71

Post by HarHarVeryFunny »

paganel wrote: post #23
exasperaited wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It will not work out over the long run. This is corruption; it breeds corruption, and corruption creates victims. Victims don't put up with it forever and as the old cold case appeal spiel goes, "alliances shift over time". More prosaically, in the short term: TSMC are now effectively compelled to acquire Intel entirely or at least a controlling share, right? Unless Trump's shakedown requires them to own 49% but then…

TSMC is not going to get over the 50% threshold because it has no free will in this whole matter, as the very existence of Taiwan, and hence of TSMC, depends on the political will of the US. Otherwise I fully agree with you, this will definitely not work out in the long run, but who cares about the long run anymore in this day and age?

Why would China annexing Taiwan have any direct effect on TSMC ?

I'd imagine they would be happy to have TSMC still selling to NVidia, Apple and AMD, and therefore a powerful lever in case of future US export controls/etc.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#72

Post by olalonde »

xyst wrote: post #46
duxup wrote: post #2

This whole economy by corruption and coercion is not going to work out.

The economy of "corruption" and "coercion" is Neoliberal Economics 101. Send your regards to pseudo economic theory from the Chicago School of Economics (ie, Milton Friedman); and to Reaganomics/trickle down economics.

Both Friedman[0] and Reagan[1] were strongly opposed to tariffs and most forms of government intervention in the economy. Hard to imagine either of them supporting the current administration's policies.

[0] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zv5SiQpG6sg

[1] https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gFMyB8WMuDU

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#73

Post by AnimalMuppet »

howmayiannoyyou wrote: post #56

[flagged]

Do I want the US defining the reality my children will inherit? Sure, especially compared to the alternatives you offered.

Do I want Trump defining it? No way. Especially not the economic future. I don't trust his knowledge of economics as far as I could throw Trump Tower.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#74

Post by davidw »

coreyh14444 wrote: post #51
duxup wrote: post #2

This whole economy by corruption and coercion is not going to work out.

[flagged]

Just last week, the director of the Bureau of Labor Statistics was fired because the jobs numbers didn't look good and that upset the person in charge.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#75

Post by vkou »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #65
vkou wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It won't work out because the people in charge are the dumbest motherfuckers imaginable. They are utterly convinced that every one of their stupid ideas is brilliant, that they know everything, and that the way forward is to liquidate anyone who has the audacity to say 'no' or 'you're wrong' to them. That's not the roadmap to good management of anything, as literally anyone who has ever worked a job will tell you. Ho…

I'm not sure they're convinced that every idea is brilliant. They're convinced that they have to convince everyone else that every idea is brilliant, because if they don't, everyone else will wake up and realize that many of their ideas are in fact not all that bright.

I don't think at this point it's safe to say that they are actually playing 3-dimensional chess. There is plenty of evidence that indicates that they are stupid enough to believe their own bullshit.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#77

Post by notahacker »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #59
oezi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When all your military spending can't help you win against a third-world country (USA in Afghanistan) or a single country 1/3 your size (Russia in Ukraine), it really makes you wonder if all that spending is justified to uphold one big bluff.

We aren't pointing "all our military spending" against Russia in Ukraine. Not by a long shot (no pun intended).

Of course not. But I think it's also true to say if the US hasn't been willing or able to effectively use its military power at the margin to stop a historic enemy from annexing its neighbours with impunity, your average regional power doesn't have to worry about the US using its military power to dominate world trade.

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#78

Post by araes »

duxup wrote: post #2

This whole economy by corruption and coercion is not going to work out.

The article pretty much says it right in the opening section

> investing a further $400 billion in the US alongside buying a stake in Intel seems improbable from a purely financial standpoint

TSMC's entire assets are ~$200,000,000,000 [1] (cash, inventory, accounts receivable, land, buildings and equipment.)

Buying 49% of Intel ... maybe. Intel's outstanding Market Cap is current ~$88,600,000,000. (4,377,000,000 outstanding shares [2] @ 20.26 8/5/25 midday price [3]). Double TSMC's entire assets is a bit extreme.

Notably, Intel's valuation also seems kind of nonsense. They made $13B in revenue last quarter. 2024 yearly was $53B ... on a market cap of $88B? Intel's been a mess lately, yet their valuation's also kind of a mess. If they ever stop bleeding money on operating profit and net income they won't look that bad.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TSMC

[2] https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/intc/instituti...

[3] https://www.nasdaq.com/market-activity/stocks/intc

Re: US reportedly forcing TSMC to buy 49% stake in Intel to secure tariff relief

#80

Post by lostlogin »

vaidhy wrote: post #36
oezi wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When all your military spending can't help you win against a third-world country (USA in Afghanistan) or a single country 1/3 your size (Russia in Ukraine), it really makes you wonder if all that spending is justified to uphold one big bluff.

Winning is different from taking over.. Russia wants to rule over Ukraine, not destroy it. US was all into destroying Afghanistan and Iraq. They had no intention of being there long term.

> Russia wants to rule over Ukraine, not destroy it.

Can’t it be both? It’s hard to argue they aren’t trying to destroy it. It has been attempted in the past during the Holodomor.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holodomor

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