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UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

reuters.com

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Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#71

Post by vr46 »

cantor_S_drug wrote: post #36
browningstreet wrote: post #9

This sounds exactly like “work” today. Certainly matches my experience in big tech. It reminds me, tangentially, of something I did a while ago. I scraped hundreds of environment non-profits and NGO websites from around the world. Many of them are UN affiliated to some degree. I tried to find 3 things: 1) what the non-profit does, 2) what the non-profit produces, 3) what the non-profit accomplished. My ability to gle…

Please ignore if my statements are ignorant. I always wondered that whenever such reports or surveys come out why don't these organisations make the whole data and methodology public? Are they afraid that if they made it public, people will know how muddy these waters are?

Some of it is legitimately journalistic and protecting sources.

Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#72

Post by buildmonkey »

AndrewKemendo wrote: post #11
browningstreet wrote: post #9

This sounds exactly like “work” today. Certainly matches my experience in big tech. It reminds me, tangentially, of something I did a while ago. I scraped hundreds of environment non-profits and NGO websites from around the world. Many of them are UN affiliated to some degree. I tried to find 3 things: 1) what the non-profit does, 2) what the non-profit produces, 3) what the non-profit accomplished. My ability to gle…

NGOs are primarily money laundering operations for political purposes. It’s one of the primary mechanics for how capital controls the execution (or not) of policy. Very powerful tool.

Try https://www.charitynavigator.org , which tells you what percentage of donated money is directly spent on the cause versus administration, staffing, etc. Charities vary widely, and it’s worth comparing charities in the same space, e.g., healthcare, hunger relief, veterans, because different spaces have different overheads.

Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#73

Post by EA-3167 »

simpaticoder wrote: post #30

This is an institutional reflection of the individual tendency to talk about problems rather than solving them. Or, an important variant, where the urge to help those in need is expressed as directing them to "appropriate resources", which are also services that direct those seeking help to other appropriate resources, ad infinitum. The net result is a whole army of people who's expressed goal is to help people but w…

It must be said that as far as that goes, the UN is designed to be a place to talk about problems, to air grievances, and the idea of it as a universal problem-solver and half-assed world government isn't particularly a part of how it started. Unfortunately as we're seeing what the UN has become is a plodding bureaucracy that occasionally has good intentions, and rarely sees them through. Mostly the UN is a clearing house for NGO organization and directing aid, which isn't a terrible thing, although their history of corruption, abuse of locals, ineptitude, and so on doesn't inspire confidence.

There's also the reality that the UN suffers from being an open forum, it means that the Qaddafi's of the world get to air their... unique perspectives as well. The rise of China and the decline of Russia has also created a pretty grim dynamic, but IMO the worst of the present state of affairs is the travesty of having countries like Iran chairing the Human Right's Council!

All in all I don't think I have a better idea for a substitute, and any ideas I did have would probably just reflect my own beliefs and desires rather than some universal principle. All in all I feel like the state of the UN does at least mirror the state of the world pretty well though. The US is all over the place depending on administration, Western Europe just plods along, Russia is a butcher, China is extremely complex in both its internal and external dealings (I don't want to generalize and I'm no expert, obviously there's some problems there however), and the Middle Eastern countries like the Gulf States and Saudi Arabia use the limitless power of vast wealth to warp and twist everything they touch.

Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#75

Post by umeshunni »

repeekad wrote: post #21
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NGOs are primarily money laundering operations for political purposes. It’s one of the primary mechanics for how capital controls the execution (or not) of policy. Very powerful tool.

In San Francisco a friend ran an event for an LGBT policy non-profit, tons of private security yet no actual members of LGBT, only rich white hetero couples and the discussion was about finances and donations, nothing to do with LGBT policy impact, it was like pulling back a curtain…

There's a derisive term 'limousine liberals' that fits the bill here.

Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#76

Post by throwup238 »

jowea wrote: post #47
zeroCalories wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to compare the UN and NGOs. The UN is a platform for diplomacy between nations. Of course it's going to be process heavy and not make a lot of progress, as these nations have fundamentally misaligned incentives. An NGO that exists as the project of nepobabies is fundamentally different.

The UN is many things. I guess most reports are a product of the secretariat/bureaucracy and the independent agencies more than the UNGA and the UNSC which is where the diplomacy happens. Although as usual the journalists failed to cite the @#*&#@(! report so I could read it myself. Honest question, is the UN bureaucracy that different from the big international NGOs? They're both large well-meaning bureaucratic orga…

> Honest question, is the UN bureaucracy that different from the big international NGOs?

It very much depends on the bureaucracy but there are quite a few UN agencies with actual authority far beyond what any NGO would have (with the exception of the International Committee of the Red Cross which is explicitly given authority by the Geneva Convention).

For example the WHO is backed by other international treaties like the International Health Regulations (~196 signatories) that give it various powers like declaring a public health emergency. Its executive board is full of Ministers of Health, Directors-General of national health services, and other high ranking public health officials that directly exercise their powers within their respective governments.

There’s also the International Court of Justice, IMF, International Atomic Energy Agency, ICAO (aviation), IMO (maritime), and ITU (telecom) with various powers ranging from allocating spectrum to handing out billions in bailout loans.

The UN may not be able to enforce many of its rulings and decisions without a standing army but for the most part, many agencies do have a lot of authority backed by international law to actually do stuff beyond coordinating its member nations and few countries ever rock the boat. Out of the agencies I mentioned above the ICJ is really the only one that has the rare bit of trouble because noncompliance escalates to the Security Council where appeals die due to friendly vetoes.

Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#77

Post by cogman10 »

buildmonkey wrote: post #72
AndrewKemendo wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

NGOs are primarily money laundering operations for political purposes. It’s one of the primary mechanics for how capital controls the execution (or not) of policy. Very powerful tool.

Try https://www.charitynavigator.org , which tells you what percentage of donated money is directly spent on the cause versus administration, staffing, etc. Charities vary widely, and it’s worth comparing charities in the same space, e.g., healthcare, hunger relief, veterans, because different spaces have different overheads.

Not so much the problem.

The bigger issue is a ton of foundations are just bribery enabling organizations. There's a reason pretty much every politician and rich person has one.

Donate $10k and the foundation can pay for a lavish speaking engagement in the Bahamas. The foundation head can give a 10 minute $50000 talk about how poverty is bad and then they enjoy the open bar and conversations with rich and powerful people.

Let's be frank, the average citizen isn't giving a dime to the George Clooney foundation for justice [1]. So you have to ask, why does such a foundation exist?

[1] https://cfj.org/

Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#78

Post by monkeyelite »

lazide wrote: post #58
monkeyelite wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is kind of like saying you don’t read every line of code for the product you ship

Eh, more like don’t actually do your code reviews.

They read the parts they care about very closely, and get a high level overview of the parts they don’t - or rely on relationships that the parts they don’t care about will be filled in reasonably.

Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#79

Post by t-3 »

monkeyelite wrote: post #35
HPsquared wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Politicians don't even read the bills they sign.

This is kind of like saying you don’t read every line of code for the product you ship

The actual situation is that the politicians are paid by outsiders who write the bills which the politician then submits. It's like outsourcing to North Koreans but getting paid by them as well as your actual employer.

Re: UN report finds UN reports are not widely read

#80

Post by zeroCalories »

jowea wrote: post #47
zeroCalories wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think it's fair to compare the UN and NGOs. The UN is a platform for diplomacy between nations. Of course it's going to be process heavy and not make a lot of progress, as these nations have fundamentally misaligned incentives. An NGO that exists as the project of nepobabies is fundamentally different.

The UN is many things. I guess most reports are a product of the secretariat/bureaucracy and the independent agencies more than the UNGA and the UNSC which is where the diplomacy happens. Although as usual the journalists failed to cite the @#*&#@(! report so I could read it myself. Honest question, is the UN bureaucracy that different from the big international NGOs? They're both large well-meaning bureaucratic orga…

Yes they seem very different. Firstly NGOs can do stuff. Groups like Doctors Without Borders come to mind. The UN doesn't do stuff because it's not meant to do stuff. It's where countries come to discuss things. Sometimes they do things, but only when all the important countries agree. I feel like people expect way too much from organizations like the UN, as if they're supposed to act like a world government.
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