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What does connecting with someone mean?

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Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#71

Post by scarface_74 »

em-bee wrote: post #68
JustExAWS wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why do I have the feeling you are not a minority, have never been stopped or questioned for being some place you “didn’t belong” or had to tell your six foot 3 step son to make sure that he and his other Black friend (two of five Black guys in the entire school) didn’t walk to the Waffle House to meet their friends after the football game unless their White friend was going with them because they would get harassed b…

i didn't say that you should. please reread what i said: i would not go out of my way to find these people, but if one of my friends turned out to be one of them, then i would try to slowly change their mind. using daryl davis as inspiration means that if he can befriend complete strangers to change their mind, then i can make an effort with the friends that i already have. that's all i am suggesting here. and in par…

By definition, as a Black guy, how would I have White friends who didn’t like Black people? I mentioned I go down to the bar downstairs from where I live where I’m friends with the bartender to hang out with him and whoever comes by - all tourists who I will probably never see again (near Disney world). I’ve met and spoken to people all over the world and even had a few shallow conversations with people who only spoke Spanish using my very limited (B1) level Spanish speaking skills.

What I’m not going to do is go to a rural evangelical church in Alabama to let them get to know me.

I hate the narrative that I’m suppose to be “the better person”. I don’t owe anyone my energy. I don’t owe people “forgiveness” who want to bring harm to me or my family. I have no need to show people that I’m “the model negro”.

I also wouldn’t have “friends” of any color who spew racists or homophobic BS. Again I have plenty of friends who are traditional Reagan/Bush/Romney pre-2016 conservatives. We disagree on certain things. But we agree on common human decency.

I also find the “allyship” crap that I see in leftist circles vomit worthy.

On another post here on HN, someone posted on an “Ask HN” how could they find a job as someone with cerebral palsy. I mentioned that I had “CP” that mostly affected my left hand and went on about the post.

Then I had I guess people who called themselves “disability allies” chastise me for using the abbreviation “CP” because it was also an abbreviation for child porn.

I had to point out that every single disability organization like Easter Seal (the place I went growing up) abbreviated it CP.

It’s no different than I assume White people telling me that I should befriend a Klansmen to change their mind. Until you have walked in my skin, you have no right to tell me how I should spend my time changing the minds of a bunch of racists pricks.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#72

Post by cindyllm »

scarface_74 wrote: post #71
em-bee wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i didn't say that you should. please reread what i said: i would not go out of my way to find these people, but if one of my friends turned out to be one of them, then i would try to slowly change their mind. using daryl davis as inspiration means that if he can befriend complete strangers to change their mind, then i can make an effort with the friends that i already have. that's all i am suggesting here. and in par…

By definition, as a Black guy, how would I have White friends who didn’t like Black people? I mentioned I go down to the bar downstairs from where I live where I’m friends with the bartender to hang out with him and whoever comes by - all tourists who I will probably never see again (near Disney world). I’ve met and spoken to people all over the world and even had a few shallow conversations with people who only spok…

[dead]

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#73

Post by scarface_74 »

em-bee wrote: post #54
taneq wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think this is an unreasonable stance. I guess we're going with downvote=disagree for this one. It's great if you can understand and connect with someone who's fundamentally decent but uninformed/misinformed and so holds some questionable views. I don't know if those views really count as "values" in this sense, though. Values tend to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and mostly immutable. If someone feels…

Values tend to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and mostly immutable i strongly disagree with that. values are learned, and they can be unlearned. people can change, and someone who kicks puppies can not only be made aware of the pain they are inflicting, and also completely turn around and reject their previous behavior. there is no invisible line that if you'd cross it, you wouldn't be able to turn back from.…

So go out and try to change the values of your typical rural evangelical Christian about gay rights or trans issues today. I’m not going to speak about other religions that I don’t know about personally.

When was the last time you hung around a group of conservative Christians? I am emphasizing a certain cohort of Christianity. I am well aware of the more liberal Christian churches that fight/fought for civil rights and treating all human beings decently.

How much time have you spent in the Bible Belt?

There are places in the south that held segregated proms as recently as 2014.

Once (the royal) you hurt my family or insult anyone I care about because of the color of their skin or about their sexuality, I don’t owe you forgiveness or an explanation for my right to exist overall or be in “your space”.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#74

Post by em-bee »

scarface_74 wrote: post #73
em-bee wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Values tend to be either innate, or deeply ingrained and mostly immutable i strongly disagree with that. values are learned, and they can be unlearned. people can change, and someone who kicks puppies can not only be made aware of the pain they are inflicting, and also completely turn around and reject their previous behavior. there is no invisible line that if you'd cross it, you wouldn't be able to turn back from.…

So go out and try to change the values of your typical rural evangelical Christian about gay rights or trans issues today. I’m not going to speak about other religions that I don’t know about personally. When was the last time you hung around a group of conservative Christians? I am emphasizing a certain cohort of Christianity. I am well aware of the more liberal Christian churches that fight/fought for civil rights…

i am not saying you have any kind of obligation to do anything to change someones mind. nor am i saying that it would be easy. i am just suggesting not to dismiss that change is possible. if daryl davis can change members of the kkk, then we can change conservative christians too. it takes effort and time, but it's not impossible.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#75

Post by scarface_74 »

anonymars wrote: post #70
raw_anon_1111 wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You didn’t answer the question - are you a minority? Do you also think Hispanic people who are here legally should have a chat with a bunch of ICE agents to change their hearts and minds? If you are White, would you go out of your way to reach out to someone who belongs to a group who actively hates White people? I’m not naming a specific group even though I’m sure they exists because I honestly have no idea what gro…

I'm not the person you were replying to originally, I was providing context for who Daryl Davis is and what he has done That doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same thing, anymore than save the whales or end world hunger. Only that people aren't immutable and irredeemable and it's not fair to dismiss the idea of connecting with them as inherently ridiculous

Yes and because $TechFounder can drop out of school and become a multi billionaire, you can too. It’s “Survivorshio Bias” at its finest.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#76

Post by scarface_74 »

squigz wrote: post #59
JustExAWS wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 51, that’s not my responsibility. We have seen that much of rural America have no desire to get out of their Fox News induced bubble. It’s even worse than I thought it was before 2020. When Fox News called the election fairly in 2020 and any other time it veers slightly off the Trump bandwagon, even it is punished by the viewers. It’s just like with religious people (subject change I’m not trying to imply all reli…

I'm sure the 51 year olds in the population you're referring to don't consider themselves absolved of their responsibility (as they see it) Maybe the fact that so many people are so willing to entirely wipe their hands of things and write off half the country as racist idiots is contributing more to the problem than churches.

How is it “my responsibility”? My “responsibility” starts and ends with my family. I will even go a step further and say it’s my responsibility to advocate for policies that lift people up and provide a social safety net. If I decide to volunteer my time to help others that’s my choice.

It’s definitely not my responsibility to put myself out there to change the hearts and minds of racists pricks. While it is my responsibility to assume the best in individuals and to treat people like people.

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#77

Post by scarface_74 »

em-bee wrote: post #74
scarface_74 wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So go out and try to change the values of your typical rural evangelical Christian about gay rights or trans issues today. I’m not going to speak about other religions that I don’t know about personally. When was the last time you hung around a group of conservative Christians? I am emphasizing a certain cohort of Christianity. I am well aware of the more liberal Christian churches that fight/fought for civil rights…

i am not saying you have any kind of obligation to do anything to change someones mind. nor am i saying that it would be easy. i am just suggesting not to dismiss that change is possible. if daryl davis can change members of the kkk, then we can change conservative christians too. it takes effort and time, but it's not impossible.

Yes and if I tell my kids to drop out of school it’s also possible for them to become a billionaire because I read about a few people who did so….

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#78

Post by anonymars »

scarface_74 wrote: post #75
anonymars wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the person you were replying to originally, I was providing context for who Daryl Davis is and what he has done That doesn't mean everyone else has to do the same thing, anymore than save the whales or end world hunger. Only that people aren't immutable and irredeemable and it's not fair to dismiss the idea of connecting with them as inherently ridiculous

Yes and because $TechFounder can drop out of school and become a multi billionaire, you can too. It’s “Survivorshio Bias” at its finest.

"Have patience and try to understand people you disagree with, and they might be open to changing their mind" isn't an out-of-reach unicorn tech investment, it is a fundamental building block of effective human communication. Ask any good salesperson

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#79

Post by anonymars »

squigz wrote: post #59
JustExAWS wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

At 51, that’s not my responsibility. We have seen that much of rural America have no desire to get out of their Fox News induced bubble. It’s even worse than I thought it was before 2020. When Fox News called the election fairly in 2020 and any other time it veers slightly off the Trump bandwagon, even it is punished by the viewers. It’s just like with religious people (subject change I’m not trying to imply all reli…

I'm sure the 51 year olds in the population you're referring to don't consider themselves absolved of their responsibility (as they see it) Maybe the fact that so many people are so willing to entirely wipe their hands of things and write off half the country as racist idiots is contributing more to the problem than churches.

You might find this organization will resonate with you: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braver_Angels

> Braver Angels ... is a ... nonprofit dedicated to political depolarization. The organization runs workshops, debates, and other events where "red" (conservative) and "blue" (liberal) participants attempt to better understand one another's positions and discover their shared values.

> The organization states that it is the "largest, grassroots, bipartisan organization in America dedicated to reviving the communal spirit of American democracy." As noted by Cavendish, they say that their "method involves bringing politically diverse people together in small groups to listen empathetically to each others' perspectives."

Re: What does connecting with someone mean?

#80

Post by JustExAWS »

anonymars wrote: post #78
scarface_74 wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and because $TechFounder can drop out of school and become a multi billionaire, you can too. It’s “Survivorshio Bias” at its finest.

"Have patience and try to understand people you disagree with, and they might be open to changing their mind" isn't an out-of-reach unicorn tech investment, it is a fundamental building block of effective human communication. Ask any good salesperson

There is a huge difference between “I don’t agree with your stance on supply side economics or universal healthcare” and “I would just as well see you hanging from a tree as sitting here next to me” or “because you decide to love someone of the same sex, you are going to bring an end to this great nation and I will do everything I can to make your life miserable”,

I am not trying to “understand” anyone who thinks someone doesn’t deserve to exist.

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