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Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

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Re: Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

#71

> No title bars, no status bars, no buttons, no borders, no menus, etc. > All windows are full-screen, just one is visible at any given time. Oh, it's like cage ( https://github.com/cage-kiosk/cage ) for X11. I was wondering ex. how you'd even move windows around in that little code; the answer is "you don't":)

What's the point of the cage?

Re: Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

#72

> No title bars, no status bars, no buttons, no borders, no menus, etc. > All windows are full-screen, just one is visible at any given time. Oh, it's like cage ( https://github.com/cage-kiosk/cage ) for X11. I was wondering ex. how you'd even move windows around in that little code; the answer is "you don't":)

What's the point of the cage?

It's probably for building appliance/kiosk systems, though it's handy for anything where you just want to run a single application fullscreen.

Re: Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

#73
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Beware! That's the DSL trap. It works here so well because it's limited to 20 lines and each macro does exactly what it needs to for the problem at hand. Take that DSL and use it over a year to write a bunch of code to do normal things as your app grows into its problem domain and spills over into a few more, and it melts. New developers will show up to onboard to your and be like "WTF is this 'on()' thing I'm lookin…

there really isn't a fundamental difference between DSLs and libraries for the points that you brought up. where it really starts to get sketchy is when you do really funny things with the base syntax (looking at you lisp and rust). if not well thought out they can be fragile, confusing, and a real burden for new contributors. I guess here's a question - do you consider regex libraries to be DSLs?

personally, I'd only consider a DSL to be good and useful if it can be implemented in different ways/languages, etc... It's not good if a DSL is language specific leaky abstraction.

Regex is a good example of a DSL.

Re: Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

#74

The very essential things a window manager should let me do are: Launch applications (which might create new windows). Switch between windows. Close windows. That sounds like the people who grew up using nothing but a smartphone all their lives. I find that there's an entire new generation of developers (and likely users) who don't understand basic window management at all --- all they have on their huge monitors all…

When you have scanning eyes, any window on-screen that you are currently not scanning is a waste of pixels. These pixels could display data from your focused window instead.

Re: Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

#75

The very essential things a window manager should let me do are: Launch applications (which might create new windows). Switch between windows. Close windows. That sounds like the people who grew up using nothing but a smartphone all their lives. I find that there's an entire new generation of developers (and likely users) who don't understand basic window management at all --- all they have on their huge monitors all…

When you have scanning eyes, any window on-screen that you are currently not scanning is a waste of pixels. These pixels could display data from your focused window instead.

Agreed, but I'll often be looking at one window while typing into another.

Re: Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

#77

The very essential things a window manager should let me do are: Launch applications (which might create new windows). Switch between windows. Close windows. That sounds like the people who grew up using nothing but a smartphone all their lives. I find that there's an entire new generation of developers (and likely users) who don't understand basic window management at all --- all they have on their huge monitors all…

I find your stance uneducated.

I use tiling vm fully (sway) and mostly work in single app full screen, one desktop per app, which is the least disruptive way possible to use a PC for work. You should try it.

Re: Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

#79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What's the point of the cage?

It's probably for building appliance/kiosk systems, though it's handy for anything where you just want to run a single application fullscreen.

If you want a single application fullscreen, you can just not start a window manager though.

Re: Mwm – The smallest usable X11 window manager

#80
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

YAGN more experimental/niche window managers. Windows and macOS get by fine on one apiece, in fact their desktop story is better because their WM and toolkit is standardized. The developers of Wayland (who are identical to the developers of Xorg) aspire to more of a Windows/Mac-like ecosystem for Linux, in which standardization, performance, and support for modern graphics hardware without hacks or workarounds are pr…

> The developers of Wayland (who are identical to the developers of Xorg) aspire to more of a Windows/Mac-like ecosystem for Linux, in which standardization, performance, and support for modern graphics hardware without hacks or workarounds are prioritized over proliferation of niche window managers and toolkits Is that why they arranged things to ensure that the Wayland world would always be split into GNOME, KDE, a…

That issue is more naivety than anything else.

At least some ideas that were floated early on are deader than dead, like copy-paste as DBus Service

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