Live data from Hacker News

The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

english.elpais.com

71–80 of 824 posts

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#71

"Following his reasoning, it cannot be stated in absolute terms that an iPhone 15 is of “better quality” than a 2003 Nokia." This statement suffers from either viewing the past through rose-tinted glasses or from total cultural relativism in the most pejorative sense. I'm not sure about 2003, but around 2009, I owned a Nokia N900, which was arguably the flagship Nokia phone at the time. I can confidently state that c…

Same. We had that phase were every manufacturer build their own tiny OS around 2007/2008. I had an LG KS360 and a Sony W200i. The LG would crash regularly. The W200i would work fine, but of course had all the proprietary Sony connectors. The W350i on the other hand was a catastrophic phone, that I had replaced twice, as evident in my Amazon account.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#73
post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not inflation, it's divorced from all factors, these companies are raking in record profits, and they still squeeze out price increases, smaller seats, worse customer service, just because you have no alternative, you gotta take it. It's called "Enshittification": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Enshittification . It's just the free market and the corporations giving a big middle finger to its clients. It's the…

On one side you have companies that are working hard 24/7 to have more money at any cost. On the other side you have average Joe who can barely work, have time for family and have time for relaxing. Also it is expected for the company to have absolutely no care for ethics unless it affects their bottom line. And there are many blockers for the average Joe like ethics, feeling guilt etc. etc. It is only natural that c…

> On one side you have companies that are working hard 24/7 to have more money at any cost. On the other side you have average Joe who can barely work, have time for family and have time for relaxing.

You are taking that as a natural state of things, a law that can't be broken, while this is just the end effect of living under capitalism. It's not set in stone and can be changed. We just need to change the incentives:

> It is only natural that companies are pushing more and more as time goes on. And there is no reason it should stop other than companies messing it up?

Jail time for executives, breaking down monopolies, and enforcing of antitrust laws come to mind as an effective way that's worked in the past. Also unionizing and strikes for the workers for fair pay. State intervention and re-nationalization of companies that misbehave, especially water, utilities, transport and agriculture. Also progressive wealth tax up to 70%-99%, so there is less incentives to be greedy (if you think that's too much...well, that already happened in 50's USA).

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#74

> ...that the great promise of capitalism — if you work, you can have a decent life, buy a house, and go on vacation — is no longer being fulfilled;... That's... not capitalism at all? Socialism maybe, but absolutely not capitalism. In average, those that work will have a good life (or at least, in average, better life than those who don't), but there is no guarantee on a single case, or even that this life will be g…

So many concepts conflated in that article, I start to wonder if an LLM genius was involved in its creation.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#75
> For some consumers — although we know there won’t be many — the Nokia’s extreme durability may be more valuable than the iPhone’s technological innovations

I still use a phone of the generation after Nokia - it must be 20 years old now. The thing is, for everyday use voicemail and SMS are enough for me. I don't need more technology. And certainly not the kind of technology that make people walk like zombies on the street. If you remember the old Youtube video about viewers not noticing a gorilla in the middle of basketball players because viewers were instructed to count something, this is exactly that.

> there’s another, lesser-known but even more effective method: convincing consumers that a product is outdated for aesthetic or symbolic reasons, even if it still works.

Long story short, durability is the greatest enemy for businesses. They have decades of experience of fighting against it. IIRC Europe introduced laws against planned obsolescence, but businesses probably did start to switch to "perceived obsolescence" when consumers proved the existence of planned obsolescence.

It's not even something evil to do for some categories of products. Good household appliances use less energy, even good ICE cars probably are more efficient than they used to be, etc. It seems that it defines a different metric for product quality, total cost of ownership.

> However, Rodríguez argues that, generally speaking, automation does improve customer service. [...] The initial investment in technology is extremely high, and the benefits remain practically the same. We have not detected any job losses in the sector either.

If companies really are investing in order to improve their customer service, that's big news.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#76

Quality has improved across many dimensions in nearly every domain I’m familiar with. In fact, I’d argue there are very few products or services that couldn’t be made today to a higher standard than at any point in the past, if we chose to prioritize that. But what’s often mistaken for a decline in quality is really a shift in priorities: toward affordability, efficiency, and accessibility. And that’s fantastic. Prod…

I'm not convinced the widening access to American consumerism is a moral win. The amount of fossil fuels we're dependent on as a species is obscene. I worry for our children. There is no offramp, only growth.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#77
post #4

> clothes are unrecognizable after the second wash What clothes are these? I don't buy any kind of expensive brands. I don't take any care when washing. I don't own a lot of clothes so I wear each item weekly. And my clothes last me for several years at least. The dyes have gotten noticeably better than when I was a child - when was the last time you had colors run in the wash?

I've got a pack of seemingly nice quality t-shirts that got a lot shorter and wider after first wash. I tried stretching them back to their original form but that doesn't work.

Used to be the cheap "three pairs for 10 euro" socks lasted a couple of years. Now I get, maybe, a year out of them before the holes get too obvious.

And price is not a reliable indicator of quality. Buying expensive can be just as much as a gamble as buying the cheap stuff.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#78

And somehow we still see great reviews about everything. I looked at this hotel made from containers recently: https://www.booking.com/hotel/de/tin-inn-montabaur.html I thought it is an interesting concept. And it has a rating of 8.5 out of 10 on booking.com, which means "Very good". But then I read through the details and the reviews (sorted by new) and see: You can hear your neighbors. You cannot open the windows.…

Online reviews follow an inverted gaussian distribution it seems like, the majority of users never bother, it's either the fans/bots or the angry ones.

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#79
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Last time I wanted to do this for a desk which perfectly fits a particular nook in my home, the local craftsmen quoted 20x the price of Ikea and an 8 month lead time. Needless to say, I got an Ikea desk delivered 3 days later.

Yeah, you prioritized price and availability over sheer product quality. Millions upon millions of people made the same choice.

I mean I bought an Ikea desk like, 15 years ago and have moved it through multiple home offices in that time and it's holding up fine. I also bought it because it was cheap enough I wouldn't worry about taking a jigsaw to it to get it customized just right for me (which was mostly cutting a hole for my tower computer case to sit just right in).

The problem with "you want real quality" people is they mostly seem to advocate buying expensive demonstrative items, rather then properly evaluating what they need.

If a desk has successful held my things and enabled me to work at it for over a decade, what exactly is "quality" meant to be and be bought for?

Re: The bewildering phenomenon of declining quality

#80

And somehow we still see great reviews about everything. I looked at this hotel made from containers recently: https://www.booking.com/hotel/de/tin-inn-montabaur.html I thought it is an interesting concept. And it has a rating of 8.5 out of 10 on booking.com, which means "Very good". But then I read through the details and the reviews (sorted by new) and see: You can hear your neighbors. You cannot open the windows.…

Grade inflation seems like another facet of the same economic problem.
Post reply on HN