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Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

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Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#71

If about 4 million KG of gold is normally produced a year, then this newly available gold will quickly drive down prices, leaving only Bitcoin as a store of value. Talk about unintended consequences…

Rhodium and iridium can become very valuable, more than they are now, if they're relatively impractical to produce cheaply using fusion.

Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#73
post #17
post #6

Unfortunately gold generated in this way would be radioactive. They calculate they would have to store the gold for over 13 years to not require labeling as radioactive waste, or over 17 years to reach the level of radioactivity of a banana. I bet it would still be less valuable than regular gold even after that. It could still be identified, and people would discriminate against it. People are funny about nuclear wa…

It reminded me of avocado trees. They take a couple of years to produce avocados and still people plant those.

And, avocados are actually as radioactive as bananas (high potassium)

Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#74

Even if this were true, at 0.15 USD/kWh it would cost more than just buying the gold. Even excluding cost of cleaning up the radioactivity, the equipment, labor, everything except the power. A GW-year is 8760 GWh. That's 8760/5000 = 1.75 GWh per kg of gold. At 0.15 USD/kWh, a GWh costs $150k US. So 1.75GWh costs about $263k. A kg of gold costs about 100k US.

This is such a fun topic to think about, it's nearly science-fiction. The problem with fusion plants is that they don't exist except as small experimental reactors. I think this could be retrofitted to existing fission plants, pumping mercury 198 gas around the outside of the core (in heat-resistant pipes of course). Still an expensive proposition as you'd want to certify that it's not going to affect the safety and…

I doubt I'll see it in my lifetime. Designing the reactors, building the prototype, building the real power plant... 30 years minimum. Then waiting another 13 years for the gold to stop being radioactive (although maybe radioactive gold sitting unmoving in a vault is worth as much as non-radioactive gold sitting unmoving in a vault if you pay your finance guys enough). And it requires high electricity prices to be profitable at all, so a bet against renewable energy generation and battery storage in that time frame (we don't have a shortage of gold). But yes, if you could create tantulum or something similar (expensive, in short supply, not artificially scarce because of hoarding)

Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#75

It requires mercury-198 as an input. The only quote I could find for mercury-198 is about $15K per milligram. So now we just need to figure out how to make mercury-198 cheaply.

Ah, I was wondering why would anyone tell they can get 5 metric tonnes of gold (~$535M) for 2.5 GW of power (~$500). Regular mercury is ~$210/kg ($1.05m/5 tonnes or 500x cheaper than gold). Although, Hg198 has 10% natural abundance. So maybe they can use raw mercury and still get decent returns depending on what othere isotopes decay into.

Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#76
post #6

Unfortunately gold generated in this way would be radioactive. They calculate they would have to store the gold for over 13 years to not require labeling as radioactive waste, or over 17 years to reach the level of radioactivity of a banana. I bet it would still be less valuable than regular gold even after that. It could still be identified, and people would discriminate against it. People are funny about nuclear wa…

The biggest problem is that it would prevent this type of gold from being useful in electronics and medical applications.

But I think it may actually end up in jewelry especially as it can be mixed with “natural” gold to reduce its signature even further.

Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#77

It requires mercury-198 as an input. The only quote I could find for mercury-198 is about $15K per milligram. So now we just need to figure out how to make mercury-198 cheaply.

Even if you could separate mercury-198 for zero cost, it would only be 10% of the mercury production, and the yearly mercury production is 4500 t/yr, i.e., at most a maximum of 450 t/yr mercury-198. Compare this to gold production, which is 3100 t/yr, or silver production of 27000 t/yr. One might argue that mercury production could be ramped up if it is needed more, but its Earth's crust abundance is only slightly higher than silver, and again, mercury-198 would be 10x rarer than silver, i.e., only twice as abundant as gold.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abundance_of_elements_in_Earth...

Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#78
post #6

Unfortunately gold generated in this way would be radioactive. They calculate they would have to store the gold for over 13 years to not require labeling as radioactive waste, or over 17 years to reach the level of radioactivity of a banana. I bet it would still be less valuable than regular gold even after that. It could still be identified, and people would discriminate against it. People are funny about nuclear wa…

The "gold" would not be radioactive as far as I understand. The reaction is 198Hg (stable) -> 197Hg (65h half life) -> 197Au (stable). You would end up with a mix of radioactive 197Hg and stable 197Au. It should be easy to separate these with established processes because you can easily refine 99.99% gold via various chemical and electrolytic processes. But I doubt any established refinery would touch radioactive inputs because it would contaminate the whole processing chain.

Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#79
post #43

Actual industrial/product use of gold is less than 10%. A massive amount of gold is used for store of wealth. If gold became less scarce, it would be less expensive. The Washington monument capstone is aluminum because aluminum was expensive in 1884. Now we make beverage containers out of aluminum. (note: I have no intention of using gold for beverage containers... I like my skin not blue )

> (note: I have no intention of using gold for beverage containers... I like my skin not blue) I thought gold was biologically inert. Any chance you’re thinking of argyria, which is caused by exposure to elemental silver?

Gold salts (e.g., old arthritis treatment) can lead to gold poisoning, but I was really just making a joke. If you have a gold chalice in your cupboard, I think you’ll be alright.

Re: Marathon fusion claims to invent alchemy, making 5000 kgs gold per gigawatt

#80

It requires mercury-198 as an input. The only quote I could find for mercury-198 is about $15K per milligram. So now we just need to figure out how to make mercury-198 cheaply.

Are you kidding me? I heard there’s a whole entire planet of Mercury and it’s right next to the biggest fusion reactor in our solar system.

We just have to figure out how to nudge Mercury into the Sun… cheaply.

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