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Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

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Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#71

Post by trollbridge »

djoldman wrote: post #69
api wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I'm also not convinced that a ten year old being able to be face to face with hard-core BDSM and incest fetish porn within 40 seconds of opening a web browser is healthy. I don't like this but don't have another solution other than the porn industry self-policing which isn't promising.

For kids with a guardian, the answer is enabling and empowering the guardian to control what the child can access. Somehow we've inappropriately shifted responsibility away from parents/guardians in some areas like internet access. In other areas, like letting your kid go outside by themselves, we've criminalized reasonable caregiver actions. It's a wild world.

Isn’t that the same argument as “Parents should keep kids away from cigarettes” by tobacco companies who were simultaneously marketing to children?

And parents aren’t in control of children 24/7. Schools tend to provide tablets and laptops everywhere, and how much trust should parents have that things like a content filter are adequate to keep children from asking objectionable pornography, hate sites teaching misogyny and so forth?

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#72

Post by weinzierl »

Sparkasse is not a word I had expected in a post like this, but here we are.

The Sparkasse network is not very well known outside of Germany but is actually Europe's largest financial services group by assets.

What is interesting is that until the 90s the membership banks were public institutions backed by municipal and state guarantees that made them virtually bankruptcy-proof, unlike private banks. EU competition rules then forced Germany to phase out these state guarantees, making Sparkassen subject to normal banking regulations and deposit insurance like other banks.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sparkassen-Finanzgruppe

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#73

Post by trollbridge »

treyd wrote: post #28
rvnx wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow this work when dealing with pedophile content, so the tech is already active. For example, on Discord, all your messages are scanned for such. On Cloudflare as well (for over 5 years). For now it means they have no interest to remove such content unless coerced or affected by the public opinion. This would destroy all content though, not just for minors. Absurd, but it works, in North Korea (death penalty), I…

I agree, that does work, but there are parameters which are different that make it worth the tradeoff to police it that strongly, like the size of the audience and the much more severe real harm caused by its production and distribution.

I think it’s pretty damned important that my 8 year old son doesn’t run across Andrew Tate or similar stuff.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#75

Post by koalaman »

djoldman wrote: post #69
api wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True, but I'm also not convinced that a ten year old being able to be face to face with hard-core BDSM and incest fetish porn within 40 seconds of opening a web browser is healthy. I don't like this but don't have another solution other than the porn industry self-policing which isn't promising.

For kids with a guardian, the answer is enabling and empowering the guardian to control what the child can access. Somehow we've inappropriately shifted responsibility away from parents/guardians in some areas like internet access. In other areas, like letting your kid go outside by themselves, we've criminalized reasonable caregiver actions. It's a wild world.

Another way of looking at it, is that when you put the responsibility of protecting a child from harmful content on the parent, you're deciding to only protect the children with the right kind of parent.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#76

Post by [deleted] »

weinzierl wrote: post #72

Sparkasse is not a word I had expected in a post like this, but here we are. The Sparkasse network is not very well known outside of Germany but is actually Europe's largest financial services group by assets. What is interesting is that until the 90s the membership banks were public institutions backed by municipal and state guarantees that made them virtually bankruptcy-proof, unlike private banks. EU competition r…

[deleted]

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#78

Post by quantumgarbage »

bobbiechen wrote: post #40
supernikio2 wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"The Ali Baba Cave" example from the Wikipedia article is what made it click for me: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-knowledge_proof .

This is an interactive example, isn't it? It doesn't help me understand non-interactive proofs like SNARKs/STARKs, where the verifier isn't communicating live with the prover.

Look for the "Fiat Shamir heuristic" to understand the non interactive part.

It basically consists in the prover getting its random challenges from hashing public inputs, rather than from the verifier's coin tosses.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#79

Post by MatteoFrigo »

coldpie wrote: post #70
MatteoFrigo wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An alternative would be some secure chip in a credit-card size plastic document, but nobody seems to like that idea. We (Google) don't make these choices.

Another approach could be for a component in the protocol that I do trust (eg an open source web browser) to serve as an intermediary, providing only the information required to each of the components that I don't trust (wallet, website). The wallet does not need to know who is requesting the proof, right?

I hear you. The main problem is how to prevent you from giving your document to somebody else, and things have converged on certified smartphone with security key plus biometrics.

Re: Opening up ‘Zero-Knowledge Proof’ technology

#80

Post by djoldman »

trollbridge wrote: post #71
djoldman wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For kids with a guardian, the answer is enabling and empowering the guardian to control what the child can access. Somehow we've inappropriately shifted responsibility away from parents/guardians in some areas like internet access. In other areas, like letting your kid go outside by themselves, we've criminalized reasonable caregiver actions. It's a wild world.

Isn’t that the same argument as “Parents should keep kids away from cigarettes” by tobacco companies who were simultaneously marketing to children? And parents aren’t in control of children 24/7. Schools tend to provide tablets and laptops everywhere, and how much trust should parents have that things like a content filter are adequate to keep children from asking objectionable pornography, hate sites teaching misogy…

> Isn’t that the same argument as “Parents should keep kids away from cigarettes” by tobacco companies who were simultaneously marketing to children?

I think most would agree that there's a significant difference between a physical product that shortens the lifespan of virtually all humans who use it, and looking at images and video, no matter how extreme.

> And parents aren’t in control of children 24/7. Schools tend to provide tablets and laptops everywhere, and how much trust should parents have that things like a content filter are adequate to keep children from asking objectionable pornography, hate sites teaching misogyny and so forth?

Agreed.

Parents and guardians should definitely be aware of and concerned about what internet filters are in place at schools.

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