What Happens to Stolen Bicycles? • Hacker News Board

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#71

Post by brk » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:09 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #46

brk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. Especially of it were a factory installed option. You could probably encapsulate the electronics in one of the frame tubes, which would mean it would be welded in to the bike. Impossible to detect casually, and nearly impossible to easily defeat without destroying the bike itself. Given the ratio of hours ridden to power draw of a small tattletale device, you could probably put a couple of magnets on the cran…

Isn't this something that would be trivially bypassed by passing a big spark through the frame? Burn out all electronics, without harming the rest of the bike.

Most likely not.

First, how you are going to pass a "big spark" through the frame? Carry around a big ass battery while you're on the hunt for bikes?

Secondly, the current would follow the path of least resistance, through the frame itself. Unlikely to really affect a module inside the frame, especially if that module is wrapped in an insulator.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#72

Post by lamby » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:09 PM UTC

Jun8 wrote: post #55

I think a useful tactic to curb loss of expensive bikes would be to legally target the people who buy them, these are the people that cause the market to exist and perpetuate the situation. My guess is that most of these people are not crooks, i.e. they are just young people who want to but can't afford a nice bike and they know exactly what they are buying. I don't understand anything about bikes so can't give an ex…

> I can't understand people who shell out thousands of dollars for a bike, are these so much better than a $500 one

They are significantly and astonishingly better if you do something that style of bike is designed to do - eg. ride 40km as efficiently as possible, go up mountains all day, sprint finishes, etc.

They aren't 10 times better, but that's not how subjective value works.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#73

Post by alanfalcon » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:09 PM UTC

laserDinosaur wrote: post #48

I've always wanted to buy a cheap bike and create a quick release bolt on the rear wheel that unspools as the wheel turns. I figure the culprit could get 3 or 4 revolutions before the back wheel falls off. Or maybe attach a length of wire to the front brake cable that wraps around the rear axel. Suddenly the wire snaps tight and yanks the front brakes. I figure it would make a good youtube series. My main fear is bei…

This brings to mind Alan Turing's bicycle in Cryptonomicon:

  "So Turing can leave his bicycle anywhere and be confident that, if stolen, it won’t go more than a fifth of a kilometer before the chain falls off."

The whole passage (it relates eventually to Enigma and Cipher Text) is a good read: http://www.euskalnet.net/larraorma/crypto/slide18.html

Of course, the whole book is a good read, so skip the link and head to a bookstore.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#74

Post by wiredfool » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:10 PM UTC

pavel_lishin wrote: post #46

brk wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Me too. Especially of it were a factory installed option. You could probably encapsulate the electronics in one of the frame tubes, which would mean it would be welded in to the bike. Impossible to detect casually, and nearly impossible to easily defeat without destroying the bike itself. Given the ratio of hours ridden to power draw of a small tattletale device, you could probably put a couple of magnets on the cran…

Isn't this something that would be trivially bypassed by passing a big spark through the frame? Burn out all electronics, without harming the rest of the bike.

Metal tubes make a nice Faraday cage.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#75

Post by jiggy2011 » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:10 PM UTC

donpdonp wrote: post #9

It would help if every purchaser of a bicycle checked the frame serial number against various online stolen bike databases. I'm not sure how fragmented the bike registration industry is.

I wonder how many people record their frame numbers, or even know that they exist?

I have 3 bikes and haven't got the frame numbers written down anywhere. Although I will rectify this now!

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#76

Post by elliottcarlson » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:12 PM UTC

There is a bike seller in Manhattan who uses an interesting system in reselling his (more than likely) stolen bikes.

Once a buyer contacts him via craigslist, he finds out the persons general vicinity, brings the bike to the area and locks it up with a combo lock based chain. He will give you the address of the bike, and if you like it, can make the purchase online and you receive the combination. If you don't want it, he can pick it up who knows when - or leave it for someone else to check out. If the bike gets stolen, he hasn't lost anything on his bottom line and at no point is he in physical communication with the actual purchaser.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#77

Post by kevinalexbrown » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:13 PM UTC

It makes sense that large-scale operations are common in locations with a big bike scene. These will likely require a distribution network, so fighting bike theft might benefit from focusing on infiltrating those networks.

I had a friend who bought a bike lock that was insured against any thefts (whether they were quick with the insurance, I don't know). When he went to register it, he saw that there were two exceptions, one of which was the city in which he lived: Eugene Oregon, a town with tens of thousands of students. After asking around, he was told bike thieves there loaded entire bike racks onto trucks in a couple minutes, then removed each lock at their leisure in a storage facility.

I find it hard to imagine that they sold them off individually: it's too suspicious to have a few people selling hundreds of bikes. Likewise, delegating to underlings to sell the bikes also seems too risky, as several people now know about the enterprise. I suppose they sell wholesale to used bike shops in other towns who are in the know.

The solution in this case would seem to be turning criminals into witnesses, a la drug enforcement. Enforcement on an individual-basis wouldn't work: mere possession of a single stolen bicycle is unlikely to prove criminality. I doubt penalizing individuals for owning a bike (as with counterfeit money) would work either: if I go to a used bike shop to buy a bike, they're not going to give me the "stolen discount" - the shop is going to mark it up to the same price as legitimate used bikes.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#78

Post by elmuchoprez » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:15 PM UTC

laserDinosaur wrote: post #48

I've always wanted to buy a cheap bike and create a quick release bolt on the rear wheel that unspools as the wheel turns. I figure the culprit could get 3 or 4 revolutions before the back wheel falls off. Or maybe attach a length of wire to the front brake cable that wraps around the rear axel. Suddenly the wire snaps tight and yanks the front brakes. I figure it would make a good youtube series. My main fear is bei…

My guess is that the pros are throwing them into a van or pick-up rather than riding away on the bike.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#79

Post by daveman » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:18 PM UTC

A few months ago I saw a tweaked-out guy at 6th & Howard in San Francisco (just outside the Techshop) literally trying to saw-off a U-lock in broad daylight. A bunch of other homeless guys were lazily watching with amusement.

I really would love to build a pepperspray-bomb-in-a-U-lock, if only I could do so without being instantly sued by a litigious thief.

Re: What Happens to Stolen Bicycles?

#80

Post by furyg3 » Tue, Aug 28, 2012, 7:19 PM UTC

seanalltogether wrote: post #63

Jun8 wrote: post #55

I think a useful tactic to curb loss of expensive bikes would be to legally target the people who buy them, these are the people that cause the market to exist and perpetuate the situation. My guess is that most of these people are not crooks, i.e. they are just young people who want to but can't afford a nice bike and they know exactly what they are buying. I don't understand anything about bikes so can't give an ex…

How do you charge someone with knowingly buying a stolen product in a legal system where someone can plead the 5th? How do you prove they knew? Typically legal systems don't go after end consumers of stolen or counterfeit products, they go after suppliers, because they can prove that suppliers are actively breaking the law.

Knowingly purchasing stolen goods is already illegal in most places. The key is the "knowingly" part.

You would have to have a ubiquitous BikeID system in a central registry of stolen bikes. It would have to be incredibly easy to check the status of a BikeID (web/email/phone/sms). It would have to have incredible traction.

At that point if someone bought a bike which was tagged in the system as stolen, and didn't check/report it within 48 hours, they could be considered complicit in the theft.

We're getting pretty close to this with cars. I'm pretty libertarian in my ideology, but at some point the barrier is so low to running a CarFax-esque check that even I wouldn't mind penalizing buyers who don't do due diligence. It is, of course, easier to justify with higher ticket items than with bikes or phones...