A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life • Hacker News Board

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#71

Post by m463 » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 1:14 AM UTC

alexpotato wrote: post #17

mrweasel wrote: post #7

For people outside the US (maybe?), CarFax has no meaning, so the analogy is a bit confusing. The whole thing make no sense. They plan to store the report on the SSD (but not just any SSD, an HP SSD), so that the telemetry is retained between operating system install. I'll give them points for doing on device data collection, but what if I replace the SSD? Maybe they don't plan on making that user replaceable, but th…

This reminds me of an old story about Hertz and Ford Mustangs. Goes something like this: - Ford makes the original Mustang (which everyone loves) - Ford makes different versions of the Mustang (some more powerful than others e.g. the Shelby) - Hertz had a special custom Shelby model made for them - You could rent that special model from Hertz - So, people would buy a lower end Mustang, rent the higher end Mustang fro…

This is actually what HP is doing.

They are taking a sku without telemetry, and quietly swapping in a machine with extensive telemetry and hardware locks that they can drive after you have taken possession.

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#72

Post by sandworm101 » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 1:18 AM UTC

trollbridge wrote: post #2

"CarFax for used PCs" is a silly analogy; a used machine can quickly be assessed for its current condition, and a log of past repairs isn't really relevant, particularly when most repairs these days are just replacing the entire motherboard. Old laptops are not particularly valuable because (a) they might be a lot slower than a new, base-model laptop at a quite affordable price, and (b) much of modern electronics has…

Carfax for Cars is also a bit of a joke. It is designed for people who don't know anything about cars and/or are too intimidated by the process to get a proper inspection done. So the analogy holds for laptops. This is for low-knowledge people who want some nebulous/vague reassurance that a particular laptop is still "good" even though used.

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#73

Post by theandrewbailey » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 2:48 AM UTC

I work in the refurb division of an e-waste recycling company. This comes off as somewhat disingenuous coming from HP, whose laptops constitute about 90% of the BIOS passworded systems we get. We can't do anything with a laptop that we can't adjust the boot order or disable secure boot on, and the value of completely disassembling, de-soldering, and flashing the BIOS chip of a laptop that would only go for ~$100 is dubious. (We've tried everything short of that.) This is particularly painful when I just today went though a lot of over 100 HP Elitebooks with 8th and 10th gen i5 CPUs. (That's plenty usable for most people.) I could sell these for $100-150 each (~$15,000 total, of which I would get 10% commission on), but since they're all BIOS locked, they're worth little more than scrap. Take the RAM and SSD out and move on.

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#74

Post by bigfatkitten » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 3:19 AM UTC

fred_is_fred wrote: post #15

ok123456 wrote: post #14

Is there any value added here? Carfax exists because of the possibility of buying a car with extensive damage that looks cosmetically ok. Additionally, the service records they collect indicate that a vehicle has undergone regular maintenance. Computers, for the most part, aren't getting in major accidents and reentering the stream of commerce. Additionally, there's no significant mechanical maintenance required, exc…

The other purpose of a CarFax is to validate or attempt to validate that the mileage reported is accurate or not. Is there an equivalent of mileage for a CPU or motherboard?

BIOS on Panasonic Toughbooks reports total power-on hours. This is independent of the HDD/SSD’s SMART reported runtime.

You can view this as a normal user, but it can’t be reset by mortals.

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#75

Post by positr0n » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 3:44 AM UTC

999900000999 wrote: post #57

rwyinuse wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From reliability perspective an used SSD is not a bad idea. Average SSD that has seen typical business / home use will become obsolete long before it reaches its TBW rating, and many drives last way beyond that. Keyboard, screen or even the motherboard are more likely to give up before the SSD.

At least in my experience SSDs are literally the only part that tends to fail. Using a used SSD( Refurbished assuming direct from manufacturer might be ok) feels like digging though someone else's stuff. Maybe they cleaned it, maybe they left business docs or other sensitive data. The risk to reward is too great.

What's the risk to you the user if it wasn't properly cleaned? Plug it in and format as the first thing you do if it worries you.

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#76

Post by ethan_smith » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 3:52 AM UTC

OtherShrezzing wrote: post #20

I think the main problem with old laptops being discarded is one of software & OS release cadence more than hardware relatability. My accountant has used the same 4 apps since the turn of the century. Yet the industry has created a situation where they’ve needed to buy 10 new computers to keep up, even though they still just use email, spreadsheets, web, and a word processor. They’d happily be in XP if it were still…

Modern OS vendors could easily create lightweight versions optimized for older hardware with reduced telemetry and simplified UI layers, extending usable lifespans by years without compromising core functionality.

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#77

Post by SoftTalker » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 4:01 AM UTC

bluedino wrote: post #69

alexpotato wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This reminds me of an old story about Hertz and Ford Mustangs. Goes something like this: - Ford makes the original Mustang (which everyone loves) - Ford makes different versions of the Mustang (some more powerful than others e.g. the Shelby) - Hertz had a special custom Shelby model made for them - You could rent that special model from Hertz - So, people would buy a lower end Mustang, rent the higher end Mustang fro…

The current urban legend is swapping a junkyard 5.3 for the Chevrolet 6.0 in a U-Haul truck, rent one and switch them and return it.

I guess the joke is on you if you rent one and it already has a swapped engine.

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#78

Post by SoftTalker » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 4:04 AM UTC

kube-system wrote: post #43

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Any enterprise company should have a policy ensuring SSD destruction. Why? Drives should already be encrypted, at which point you just lose the key and it's unrecoverable.

They should, but then it only takes one misconfigured, or misbehaving machine to cause a data breach that, depending on the industry, could be a big headache and cost. At scale, with many employees, the chances of this happening approach 1. Physical destruction is cheap and effective insurance against this.

Yeah my employer policy is no hard drives are ever left in retired equipment. They get pulled and crushed.

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#79

Post by captainregex » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 4:27 AM UTC

neilv wrote: post #18

> By embedding telemetry capabilities directly within the firmware, we ensure that device health and usage data is captured the moment it is collected. This data is stored securely on HP SSD drives, leveraging hardware-based security measures to protect against unauthorized access or manipulation. What I see are more technological affordances for closed firmware behavior of the device, increasing complexity, and prov…

you’re not the enterprise they’re going after. buying a used fleet is going to be a different exercise in risk mitigation

Re: A CarFax for Used PCs; Hewlett Packard wants to give old laptops new life

#80

Post by graemep » Tue, Jul 01, 2025, 5:49 AM UTC

bcraven wrote: post #9

graemep wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have used laptops for much longer too, and for a lot of tasks performance does not matter. Desktops tend to be better when older though. There are already dealer who sell second hand machines in reasonably dependable condition. HP seems to be aiming to control (note the bits about preventing unauthorised access) rather than facilitating the market.

Whilst you may have used them, this is referring to an enterprise setting where devices are usually replaced at the end of the warranty. Indeed, this is the point. When that business is done with it you can buy it, know how well-used it is, and give it a second life.

> Indeed, this is the point. When that business is done with it you can buy it, know how well-used it is, and give it a second life

That is exactly what the dealers I referred to do.

The biggest thing HP seems to be adding here is a process for getting additional information that they control. Why should it need authorisation to read this information? The state of a piece of hardware should be openly and easily visible to its owner or possessor.