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Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

motortrend.com

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Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#71

Post by Gravityloss »

snowwrestler wrote: post #14

That article seemed filled with anxiety to me. I don't think anything will eliminate range anxiety other than time. As more people get electric cars and start to build their lives around them, their acquaintances will start to see it as more normal. It's almost like the very early days of the automobile, when each driver had to carry a ton of extra gas, since fill stations were few and far between. Like any bootstrap…

What I don't understand is why don't they put a small 20 kW 500 cc one cylinder generator in cars, at the same time they could reduce the battery size quite a lot and still most trips could be made purely electrically. Cost would be a lot lower as well.

The average power needed for driving is very low, only 10-20 kW and the battery handles the peaks like when you need to climb a hill or overtake. For example in this article they used 78.2 kWh in 5 h, meaning average 16 kW. The small generator could be called a spare energy source.

Instead, all plugin hybrids have big expensive heavy four cylinder engines which defeats the whole point of building a hybrid in the first place. For example 1.4 liters in the Chevrolet Volt / Opel Ampera.

And then Tesla has no high energy density backup source which again limits the usability of that car (and forces you to keep another car). And raises anxiety...

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#72

Post by eavc »

clarky07 wrote: post #65
freehunter wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's about range anxiety, and then ends with the relief that they didn't really need to worry too much. 5 hours of driving from an electric car getting 100 mpg-e and matching a BMW M5 stat-for-stat. That impressed them, and it impresses me.

except for the part where they didn't actually make it to their destination. And since most people aren't going to have the charging station 4 miles from their eventual destination, everyone else would have been screwed. Not too mention they now have to wait 30 minutes to get their last 5 miles. still an impressive car :-)

They intentionally chose a route at the maximum possible millage. Most people would be more conservative.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#73

Post by jdvh »

samstave wrote: post #15
is74 wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

While he was fired from Pay pal, the other two claims are factually false.

Why was he fired from PayPal? I'm not familiar with the story...

From what I remember from The Paypal Wars (highly recommended):

There was a culture clash when X got bought by Paypal. Elon was in charge of X and became the CEO of the combined company (as Peter Thiel took a leave of abscence) and wanted to switch from Unix to Windows. Max Levchin, the main tech guy at Paypal hated that idea. Elon initially got his way, and Max got marginalized. He then started looking into fraud cases and discovered that fraud, although low as a percentage of revenue, was growing rapidly. Max then persuaded people that the #1 priority should be to fix the fraud issue before it would kill them, and that they didn't have the time to worry about the technology stack. Elon Musk got kicked out, Peter Thiel came back to Paypal as CEO and Max managed to squash the fraud problem. Their competitors either failed to get traction or got crushed by fraud. With Paypal as the last one standing they won and got bought by Ebay.

http://www.amazon.com/The-PayPal-Wars-Battles-Planet/dp/0974...

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#74

Post by jonknee »

R_Edward wrote: post #31
jfb wrote: post #16

Don't care still want.

It would be an awesome commuter car, but it's awfully hard to justify that price tag for something you only use an about 8 hours a week. Especially if the seats are as uncomfortable as he suggests. Still... if I had that kind of auto budget, I'd definitely buy one. It would be nice if the all-electric vehicles provided a port in which you could plug an emergency battery that would take you, say, 20 miles or so, so yo…

> It would be an awesome commuter car, but it's awfully hard to justify that price tag for something you only use an about 8 hours a week.

You could say that about any luxury car. The vast majority of people simply don't drive more than 250 miles in a day.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#75

Post by gbhn »

Karunamon wrote: post #19
snowwrestler wrote: post #14

That article seemed filled with anxiety to me. I don't think anything will eliminate range anxiety other than time. As more people get electric cars and start to build their lives around them, their acquaintances will start to see it as more normal. It's almost like the very early days of the automobile, when each driver had to carry a ton of extra gas, since fill stations were few and far between. Like any bootstrap…

>The other big issue is the time to refill I think that will end up requiring both a social tweak and an infrastructure one. Once people are comfortable with the concept of an electric car, it will be only natural to start requesting (and the necessary civil authorities adding) charging ports in standard parking areas. Imagine in NYC, a parking meter that also has a charging plug for the car. Raise the meter's rate j…

Agreed this is a big problem. If you could pull in, swap batteries, and be back on the road in 5 minutes, that is short enough that range isn't so much an issue. Having to wait for half an hour or more while the car charges is a very painful thing.

Perhaps self-driving cars are a solution: if the self-driving EV you're in runs out of power, you just jump out and grab another one. The transportation company worries about charging it.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#76

Post by ChuckMcM »

rdl wrote: post #12
timmyd wrote: post #3

Elon Musk is without doubt one the best entrepreneurs around - far less celebrated than many of the other 'uber' entrepreneurs around but with such ridiculously awesome companies. 268 Miles (or slightly less according to the article) is just amazing - less C02, less environmental impact wrapped in a high performance car which - will no doubt - have some detractors as a first iteration against well establish models (c…

I think the next big innovation after EV (+ diesel for long haul, and maybe diesel/hybrid), will be self-driving cars. If you keep cars for 10 years, it's reasonable that a car bought today could be your last without a self-driving mode, even if that self driving mode only covers certain driving regimes (auto-park, which the Japanese prius did a few years ago; highway close-follow road-train mode, auto-braking (which…

I think your 10 year estimate is optimistic, but it is certainly coming to the point where the cars drive themselves. One of the interesting things about being driven, as opposed to driving, is that passengers rarely suffer from 'road rage.' That is a big win.

Perhaps more interesting will be the transition time, that point where half the cars are self driving and half are manually driven. Will manual drivers become more aggressive because they "know" the robo-cars will get out of their way? I expect it will be less fun before it is more fun.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#77

Post by clarky07 »

enraged_camel wrote: post #66
clarky07 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

first, I have 2 cars with a combined value of less than 10k. that's a far cry from 50k on 1 car. second, no it can't. That's the one they use to do the traveling I'm talking about. They don't take the pickup on the road trip.

Mid-range is typically around 250 miles, which the Tesla can do. As for budget, sure, the Tesla is a bit on the expensive side, but it is not difficult to afford for middle-class families.

all the other mid range cars can do another 250 in 5 minutes.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#78

Post by clarky07 »

eavc wrote: post #72
clarky07 wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except for the part where they didn't actually make it to their destination. And since most people aren't going to have the charging station 4 miles from their eventual destination, everyone else would have been screwed. Not too mention they now have to wait 30 minutes to get their last 5 miles. still an impressive car :-)

They intentionally chose a route at the maximum possible millage. Most people would be more conservative.

no, most people would go to the place they are going, no matter if it is 220 miles or 260 miles. If it's 220 they'd be fine, if it's 260 they'd be screwed.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#79

Post by michaelt »

jfb wrote: post #58
michaelt wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article says: We drove from Fontana on the eastern edge of the L.A. basin to San Diego and all the way back to L.A.'s Pacific edge on one charge. Five hours of continuous driving. The 233 mile, 5 hour trip was done on a single charge. To me that's pretty far - I could tolerate a 1 hour break every 5 hours.

But that's not yet in the cards. Realistically, you need to be talking about 2.5 hours as the effective range, as almost nowhere will have the full speed charging setup.

I was thinking someone who drove 5 hours to visit family would be staying over night and could do an over night charge. I'll admit this may not always be the case.

I certainly agree that serious range and uptake will need serious charging and generation infrastructure.

Re: Tesla model S eliminates range anxiety

#80

Post by jfb »

enraged_camel wrote: post #66
clarky07 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

first, I have 2 cars with a combined value of less than 10k. that's a far cry from 50k on 1 car. second, no it can't. That's the one they use to do the traveling I'm talking about. They don't take the pickup on the road trip.

Mid-range is typically around 250 miles, which the Tesla can do. As for budget, sure, the Tesla is a bit on the expensive side, but it is not difficult to afford for middle-class families.

Of course, the model with the 85Kwh battery is significantly more than $50k.
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