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U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

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Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#71

Post by heavyset_go »

userbinator wrote: post #33
drjolly wrote: post #16

I think this is pretty consistent with the old school 1950s views of the current administration. Companies can prioritize profits over people again. Yeah, dump in the rivers, dump in the woods, just drive around in circles dumping in an empty lot. You don’t need masks- give everyone cancer and blow some shit up, maybe get some acid burns. Super-fund sites? When was the last one we had anyway- we need more of ‘em- lot…

[flagged]

> The US saw how China rose to dominate manufacturing, and would like to go back to being a manufacturing power again.

If that were the case, the US would be dumping trillions into spinning up manufacturing like China did.

The US has the power to do this, they did it during WWII, and like it or not, this current era requires heavy strategic investments that may not produce returns for decades, if at all. It's what China is doing and if the US were trying to compete, they'd do the same. We were getting somewhat close to this with the CHIPS Act, but that's on the chopping block[1], too.

Truth is US capital is happy to sell off manufacturing capability to cash in on cheap labor, and there is no monetary incentive to re-shore manufacturing capacity unless the government provides serious incentives or does it themselves.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CHIPS_and_Science_Act#Subseque...

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#72

Post by rectang »

hn_throwaway_99 wrote: post #67
nerdsniper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote elsewhere: > Please note that the CSB is not an enforcement agency - they don’t assign fault or levee fines or bring any charges or write any regulation.

I don't necessarily think that goes against what the parent commenter is saying. The CSB does apparently do investigations and root cause analysis of chemical accidents and spills - in my mind they sound analogous to the NTSB and how they investigate aviation accidents. So, by that analogy, I think the NTSB is amazing and has done crucial, instrumental work that makes flying safer (as the saying goes, aviation regula…

> I think it's elimination could lead to a willingness by companies to be more careless when it comes to chemical safety

And that's the point, is it not? Create a wider space for companies to "innovate" within, at the expense of those harmed by company actions but without the resources to seek redress.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#73

Post by mulmen »

rectang wrote: post #52
haiku2077 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The CSB is not a regulatory agency. It doesn't enforce anything against companies. It investigates major disasters and publishes recommendations. It's like the NTSB but for industries that use hazardous chemicals.

I still think it's ideologically consistent with insulating companies from externalities. Without official investigations, companies can assert their own interpretations of events. Boeing did this with the NTSB recently: https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/boeing-punished-by-ntsb-fo...

Ok but the NTSB's response was to refer to DOJ because NTSB has no teeth.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#74

Post by pstuart »

nerdsniper wrote: post #47
supplied_demand wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

== I think a huge, huge amount of the government is wasteful but the CSB is doing incredible work== It feels like there is some type of reverse Gell-Mann Amnesia that goes on with government spending and programs. Those close to the subject matter typically view government spending in their area of expertise as necessary, even “incredible” as you state. When it comes to spending in an area they are not an expert, it…

I mean, I also now work at a public university and can nearly taste the waste in projects I’m directly involved in.

It often gets framed as a "government problem", but private enterprise is not immune to these problems either. It's almost like it's a natural result of any organization that is too large for direct accountability and uses funds that they have no personal stake in.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#75

Post by okanat »

kumarvvr wrote: post #63
okanat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing surprising there. The US-led social media finally achived its biggest success. It made weaponized ignorance viable at an enormous scale. Not just in the US but all over the world. The fight now is anybody with some critical thought ability vs willfully and violently ignorant. The former is getting fewer in the numbers and the latter is out for blood. We need to be very efficient to disarm and passivize the vi…

> all over the world Not in India. Here, there is no concept of Big Govt. The concept is "What is this govt. going to give me for free for me to vote for it" Its the other end of the complimentary spectrum.

I'm no American and I am from a country (Turkey, but I moved out) that has some similarities to both Asian and Western style corruption.

> "What is this govt. going to give me for free for me to vote for it"

The exact line of thinking has caused its own Trump case in Turkey. It is similar for the Eastern Europe. Many voted for Trump for petty small interests and very short term gains too. For all of them, social media was a huge boost to explode small gains into bigger narratives.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#76

Post by kevin_thibedeau »

yongjik wrote: post #30
pixl97 wrote: post #4

Save lives?: X Increase safety?: X Make more money?: YES The USCSB makes life safer for everyone in this country, especially people that work around potentially dangerous chemicals and pressurized equipment.

[flagged]

California can just keep doing its thing and the rest of the country benefits from their regulations. Prop 65 is to thank for all the Harbor Freight stores no longer reeking of outgassing plastics.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#77

Post by usefulcat »

gosub100 wrote: post #59
yongjik wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

[flagged]

50 employees with a budget of $14.4 million doesn’t even qualify as a rounding error in the federal budget. Don’t pretend this has anything remotely to do with “government waste”.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#78

Post by sremani »

kumarvvr wrote: post #63
okanat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing surprising there. The US-led social media finally achived its biggest success. It made weaponized ignorance viable at an enormous scale. Not just in the US but all over the world. The fight now is anybody with some critical thought ability vs willfully and violently ignorant. The former is getting fewer in the numbers and the latter is out for blood. We need to be very efficient to disarm and passivize the vi…

> all over the world Not in India. Here, there is no concept of Big Govt. The concept is "What is this govt. going to give me for free for me to vote for it" Its the other end of the complimentary spectrum.

In India, The lower level bureaucracy lives off people and higher level bureaucracy lives off state.

In US, the bureaucracy lives off entirely on State. That is why it feels less corrupt.

$36 Trillion in debt but fights are on one million dollar budgets.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#79

Post by monkeyelite »

rectang wrote: post #60
nerdsniper wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wrote elsewhere: > Please note that the CSB is not an enforcement agency - they don’t assign fault or levee fines or bring any charges or write any regulation.

CSB investigations still represent an objective source of truth which competes with the PR that companies put out absolving themselves of blame in the event of any mishap. Removing the CSB frees up companies to "self-regulate" and blast out bogus framings.

> an objective source of truth

An alternative source with different incentives and culture, not an objective one.

Re: U.S. Chemical Safety Board could be eliminated

#80

Post by Tadpole9181 »

kumarvvr wrote: post #63
okanat wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nothing surprising there. The US-led social media finally achived its biggest success. It made weaponized ignorance viable at an enormous scale. Not just in the US but all over the world. The fight now is anybody with some critical thought ability vs willfully and violently ignorant. The former is getting fewer in the numbers and the latter is out for blood. We need to be very efficient to disarm and passivize the vi…

> all over the world Not in India. Here, there is no concept of Big Govt. The concept is "What is this govt. going to give me for free for me to vote for it" Its the other end of the complimentary spectrum.

What? They didn't say big government or respect for it did this. In fact, they're arguing for a strong government and that violent ignorance is dismantling valuable public systems.

Are you being sarcastic? To say India doesn't have violent ignorance in the same breath of... The obscene wealth inequality, social castes, sexual inequality, etc of that country...

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