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The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

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Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#71

Post by dgfitz »

PintScotch wrote: post #59
whateveracct wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Uncharted 4 was barely a game tho Most good games have an art to their gameplay and storytelling. Uncharted 4 was a movie on rails.

It was very frustrating to play, I bought my PS4 bundled with it and I didn't enjoy the game at all. Generally all the Uncharted games are on rails but Uncharted 4 was ridiculous. I think I died by running in the wrong direction. Generally naughty dog's games follow the same basic formula and are on rails. Uncharted 2 was the best game of the bunch. Though last boss was tedious, especially on the harder difficulties.…

I feel the need to defend myself: I also beat Elden Ring and the expansion boss. Lvl 155 for the main game and scadu 18 for the xpack boss, no summons!

I just like a variety of games I guess. Playing the Indiana jones one now. The FPV is a touch obnoxious but I’m working past it.

Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#72

Post by skyyler »

SunlightEdge wrote: post #70
foldr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only examples you give of it 'catering to female and LGBT audiences' are the existence of some female and LGBT characters. Also, Abby is just a regular cis heterosexual woman, and there is never any indication that she might be otherwise. I can't really see how the mere existence of a straight cis female character in a game could signal very much about its intended audience.

Respectfully I don't agree. I didn't enjoy the story - so there's that (again just an opinion). I literally thought Abby was a trans woman she was so muscular (and so have plenty of other gamers). She then later teams up with a transman. What's interesting is how you portray Abby vs how I and a lot of others saw here (a massive hulk that was kind of a woman but kind of something else). Note I am talking about the vid…

>I literally thought Abby was a trans woman she was so muscular

Do you think that trans women are muscular? How many trans women have you met in real life?

>The lesbian element seemed very played up.

Can you expand on what you mean by this? Do you have any examples of games with lesbian elements that aren't "played up"?

Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#73

Post by foldr »

SunlightEdge wrote: post #70
foldr wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only examples you give of it 'catering to female and LGBT audiences' are the existence of some female and LGBT characters. Also, Abby is just a regular cis heterosexual woman, and there is never any indication that she might be otherwise. I can't really see how the mere existence of a straight cis female character in a game could signal very much about its intended audience.

Respectfully I don't agree. I didn't enjoy the story - so there's that (again just an opinion). I literally thought Abby was a trans woman she was so muscular (and so have plenty of other gamers). She then later teams up with a transman. What's interesting is how you portray Abby vs how I and a lot of others saw here (a massive hulk that was kind of a woman but kind of something else). Note I am talking about the vid…

As you probably know, the misconception that Abby was trans was fed by online commentary made before the game was released, when people had just seen the trailer and only knew that there was a trans character in the game. No-one who actually plays the game would get the impression that Abby is trans. For all that you play up Abby’s physique, I’m sure you’re perfectly well aware that cis women can have big muscles and that trans women don’t usually spend hours at the gym developing physical traits that would be perceived as masculine. But for some reason you’re repeating these nonsense complaints made years ago by people who hadn’t even played the game.

Your only specific complaint about Ellie and her girlfriend is that they’re lesbians. And you keep mentioning the fact that the game has some LGBTQ characters as if that in itself is some kind of gotcha that proves your point (“she then teams up with a trans man”). I’m not trans but I don’t feel that a game is any less aimed at me just because one of the characters is trans. Why on Earth would I?

You’re obviously entitled to have whatever subjective reaction you have to the game or the characters. But you chose to frame your reaction primarily in terms of the LGBT themes in the game, and that’s the part of your comment I’m responding to.

Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#74

Post by SunlightEdge »

foldr wrote: post #73
SunlightEdge wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Respectfully I don't agree. I didn't enjoy the story - so there's that (again just an opinion). I literally thought Abby was a trans woman she was so muscular (and so have plenty of other gamers). She then later teams up with a transman. What's interesting is how you portray Abby vs how I and a lot of others saw here (a massive hulk that was kind of a woman but kind of something else). Note I am talking about the vid…

As you probably know, the misconception that Abby was trans was fed by online commentary made before the game was released, when people had just seen the trailer and only knew that there was a trans character in the game. No-one who actually plays the game would get the impression that Abby is trans. For all that you play up Abby’s physique, I’m sure you’re perfectly well aware that cis women can have big muscles and…

I played the game and didn't read any online stories about the game and experienced Abby as trans for a very long time into the game. I wasn't influenced by anyone. Her sexuality/gender was very unclear to me (this is about the video game).

There is no gotcha attempts in any of my writing (honestly).

I do think Abby (hyper muscular seemed trans), her transmale friend, Ellie having no interesting gravity and being a lesbian and her girlfriend being uninteresting and long romantic scenes of the two of them, all back up my perspective. But it's just an opinion.

What's undeniable is that these characters are a stark contrast to the original game. Naughty dog took the feel of the game in a very different direction.

I also know you will dismiss my viewpoint and insist I'm not seeing it "correctly". I will be strawmanned, my experience denied, and my opinions explained away.

But as I also said I have no problem with people making a diverse range of games.

TLOU2 is a very marmite game - and a lot of people loved it and a lot of people didn't like it. And the people it appeals to clearly is different from part 1. I appreciate you disagree.

Best wishes

Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#75

Post by skyyler »

SunlightEdge wrote: post #74
foldr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you probably know, the misconception that Abby was trans was fed by online commentary made before the game was released, when people had just seen the trailer and only knew that there was a trans character in the game. No-one who actually plays the game would get the impression that Abby is trans. For all that you play up Abby’s physique, I’m sure you’re perfectly well aware that cis women can have big muscles and…

I played the game and didn't read any online stories about the game and experienced Abby as trans for a very long time into the game. I wasn't influenced by anyone. Her sexuality/gender was very unclear to me (this is about the video game). There is no gotcha attempts in any of my writing (honestly). I do think Abby (hyper muscular seemed trans), her transmale friend, Ellie having no interesting gravity and being a l…

>hyper muscular seemed trans

What about trans women is hyper muscular to you? I'm asking genuinely, have you ever interacted with a trans woman in real life?

Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#76

Post by foldr »

SunlightEdge wrote: post #74
foldr wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As you probably know, the misconception that Abby was trans was fed by online commentary made before the game was released, when people had just seen the trailer and only knew that there was a trans character in the game. No-one who actually plays the game would get the impression that Abby is trans. For all that you play up Abby’s physique, I’m sure you’re perfectly well aware that cis women can have big muscles and…

I played the game and didn't read any online stories about the game and experienced Abby as trans for a very long time into the game. I wasn't influenced by anyone. Her sexuality/gender was very unclear to me (this is about the video game). There is no gotcha attempts in any of my writing (honestly). I do think Abby (hyper muscular seemed trans), her transmale friend, Ellie having no interesting gravity and being a l…

Not sure why you are doubling down on this weird claim that Abby “seems trans”. Apart from that, you’re just making vague criticisms that characters “lack gravity”, etc. The only specific thing you don’t like about them is that they’re LGBT. Repeating over and over again that the game has (gasp!) a lesbian couple in it isn’t going to actually substantiate your claim that it’s not aimed to appeal to straight men.

Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#78

Post by skyyler »

PintScotch wrote: post #64
api wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Female/LGBTQ characters are inserted into places where it doesn't make sense to fill quotas Every case of "ruined by woke" I have seen ultimately just boils down to bad writing, with people blaming "woke" for it when, well, it's just shitty writing. If you ignore the woke stuff and look more broadly usually the whole thing is at best mediocre. Also sci-fi, fantasy, and horror have always been "woke." Star Trek was…

> Every case of "ruined by woke" I have seen ultimately just boils down to bad writing, with people blaming "woke" for it when, well, it's just shitty writing. If you ignore the woke stuff and look more broadly usually the whole thing is at best mediocre. No not really. Claiming this is a hand waving away legit criticism. Fans/Superfans have legitimate criticism of how it breaks the in franchise universes. Constructi…

>Star Trek TNG was progressive, but none of the politics were seen as extreme even at the time of release.

Season 5, Episode 17 features a genderless species that enforces a type of conversion therapy on any member of the species that believes they do have a gender. It's very thinly veiled, if you could consider it veiled at all.

I think I would agree that TNG's politics weren't considered extreme at the time. However, it's easy to believe that some themes the show touches on would be considered "woke" today.

Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#79

Post by api »

PintScotch wrote: post #64
api wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Female/LGBTQ characters are inserted into places where it doesn't make sense to fill quotas Every case of "ruined by woke" I have seen ultimately just boils down to bad writing, with people blaming "woke" for it when, well, it's just shitty writing. If you ignore the woke stuff and look more broadly usually the whole thing is at best mediocre. Also sci-fi, fantasy, and horror have always been "woke." Star Trek was…

> Every case of "ruined by woke" I have seen ultimately just boils down to bad writing, with people blaming "woke" for it when, well, it's just shitty writing. If you ignore the woke stuff and look more broadly usually the whole thing is at best mediocre. No not really. Claiming this is a hand waving away legit criticism. Fans/Superfans have legitimate criticism of how it breaks the in franchise universes. Constructi…

Yeah, I think a lot of that's just bad writing. Changing things for TV/film is common, but if you do it badly or ham-fistedly it's bad writing.

The Expanse is great. The show has uneven production quality if you look closely but the acting and writing are good and that matters more than VFX or sets. Definitely a fun watch. The books are better, but a lot of the detail in the books would be way more expensive to film properly (like more realistic space sequences or the Belters with their altered physiology).

Re: The Last of Us Part II – Seattle Locations Tour

#80

Post by api »

skyyler wrote: post #78
PintScotch wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Every case of "ruined by woke" I have seen ultimately just boils down to bad writing, with people blaming "woke" for it when, well, it's just shitty writing. If you ignore the woke stuff and look more broadly usually the whole thing is at best mediocre. No not really. Claiming this is a hand waving away legit criticism. Fans/Superfans have legitimate criticism of how it breaks the in franchise universes. Constructi…

>Star Trek TNG was progressive, but none of the politics were seen as extreme even at the time of release. Season 5, Episode 17 features a genderless species that enforces a type of conversion therapy on any member of the species that believes they do have a gender. It's very thinly veiled, if you could consider it veiled at all. I think I would agree that TNG's politics weren't considered extreme at the time. Howeve…

> I think I would agree that TNG's politics weren't considered extreme at the time.

They would be considered more extreme by today's right than they were in the 1990s. If that came out today it would be woke gender ideology propaganda or something. But today's right is trying to low key rehabilitate Hitler.

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