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Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

thecity.nyc

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Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#71

Post by Simulacra »

mindslight wrote: post #55
potato3732842 wrote: post #13

The entire framing of this article fact that we don't even know the name of whoever he was trying to protect tells you a lot. Clearly we're not meant to be upset that fed-cops can behave this way generally, we're meant to be upset that they dared treat another agent of the state, a more equal animal, the way they'd treat a common peasant who got similarly uppity. Caring about these generalities is outside our lane.

News is written for lowest common denominator, appealing to emotional narratives. [More] news at 11. Stop trying to point to the media's hypocrisy as if it justifies rejecting the overall message. I don't like that elected officials are of a higher class either, but the plain fact is they are . We need to work with this to point out how out of control this administration is. Sometimes, criticism is poised to cause re…

[flagged]

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#72

Post by woodruffw »

potato3732842 wrote: post #65
woodruffw wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think that's the point of the article -- I suspect it's more that the average New Yorker reading this NYC news site already knows who Brad Lander is. (You can also easily imagine why it wouldn't be ideal to publish the name of someone who is actively being harassed by masked thugs.)

>(You can also easily imagine why it wouldn't be ideal to publish the name of someone who is actively being harassed by masked thugs.) If I were being mistreated by enforcers I would want my name anywhere and everywhere. Public scrutiny is one's only hope when government seeks to mistreat you.

I think this qualifies as public scrutiny. But also: you're presumably a citizen/national, like me, so you're not coming at this from a "they're going to kidnap my family to punish me for being visible" angle. That's been the recent trend for non-citizens/nationals.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#73

Post by mindslight »

potato3732842 wrote: post #52
mlsu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. There is a parallel authoritarian system being built up, starting with the creation of DHS in 2001 and ending god knows where. T…

>Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. I would be absolutely elated if the end result of all this crap is a judicial president that eviscerates the many parallel syst…

> Right now you're making the same complaints about immigration process that hardcore libertarians made decades ago about traffic court and code enforcement and were brushed off for various reasons. They're keeping their mouths shut so as to not interfere with the learning process.

Can you point me to some examples of people a decade ago running afoul of traffic or code enforcement, and being sent to an extrajudicial concentration camp for it?

But seriously, stop trying to be edgy with needlessly contrarian points. Stop gloating because us libertarians were talking about the trend of unaccountable government processes before it was popular. The dam breaking is not something to be celebrated, you're just adding fuel to the fire.

It's time to circle the wagons and defend our country together. True libertarians are not "keeping our mouths shut", but rather speaking out against the rapidly increasing government power. One cause, which we have to be mature and acknowledge, is the destruction of bureaucracy (which we've always disliked, but at least it moderated) in favor of unrestrained autocracy.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#74

Post by blooalien »

lesuorac wrote: post #39
distortionfield wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the natural end result of giving the president qualified immunity for acts in office. There is now no reason for them to follow the law.

How? None of these individuals are the president. It's the effect of qualified immunity for non-presidents.

Mostly because they're acting as agents of the president's agenda, and as such, even if one were to prosecute them for their crimes, the president would just blanket-pardon them all and executive-order that they're immune to any legal enforcement against them, and the toadies in D.C. would roll over and allow it all to happen.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#76

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia »

msgodel wrote: post #67
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> we're meant to be upset that they dared treat another agent of the state, I'm upset because a US citizen was arrested for asking a reasonable question to some government officials before complying with the government officials.

Government employees have more responsibilities than normal US citizens. If he was hiding someone he was derelict in that responsibility and sending the law after him is completely reasonable.

He wasn't hiding anyone. He was out in a hallway, along with the person he had linked arms with. Watch the video.

He was refusing to unlink his arm from the person ICE wanted to detain until ICE presented documentation establishing the legality of what they were doing. It was a perfectly reasonable request.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#77

Post by RHSeeger »

deadbabe wrote: post #6
sjsdaiuasgdia wrote: post #2

Call your elected representatives. Attend a protest. Make noise. Above all else, protect your family, friends, and neighbors. We do not have to sit back and let this happen.

[flagged]

It seems like it would be possible for state and local forces (police) to arrest and imprison ICE agents that are acting illegally. Specifically, arrest them for kidnapping when the nab people off the streets. Sure, they'll get out because they can lie and pretend they have cause; but they could be locked up for a while at least. And do it enough, and maybe they'll start thinking twice before acting stupid.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#78

Post by stingrae »

incomingpain wrote: post #63
stingrae wrote: post #22

It is insane that federal agents are allowed to roam around in masks, without ID and just arrest people.

They arent. They need probable cause to arrest just like any other law enforcement. If they just arrest you because you're annoying or fake charges. You can sue them for deprivation of rights.

They are, it could be that the vast majority are acting in good faith, but the videos show a very different story. There is also no statement from ICE renouncing bad behavior from their agents.

Also, you are going to have a hard time suing if you are an El Salvadorian prison.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#79

Post by mlsu »

potato3732842 wrote: post #52
mlsu wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. There is a parallel authoritarian system being built up, starting with the creation of DHS in 2001 and ending god knows where. T…

>Another thing that is troubling is that immigration law is sort of a parallel system to normal criminal law. The rights for the accused are lesser and obligations for officers are more lax. The burden of proof is lower. It's easier to get warrants and the rules of evidence are more relaxed. I would be absolutely elated if the end result of all this crap is a judicial president that eviscerates the many parallel syst…

It's fantastic that right libertarians have the opportunity to own me, a lib. The silver lining to all of this is all of the epic lib-owning that can be done as a result of the destruction of the rule of law. But, by my reading, traffic court and HOA fees were not cause of all of this. Right libertarians rightfully complained in 2001 when the DHS was formed; they again rightfully complained in the 2010's when Snowden blew the lid open on global surveillance. I would like to see them resist in a meaningful way here and now. Unfortunately it seems they are busy going to cryptocurrency conferences at Mar-a-Lago.

> I would be absolutely elated if the end result of all this crap is a judicial president that eviscerates the many parallel systems that the feds/state/local governments run in all sorts of specialty areas of law.

I think we saw what giving power to the "right guy" in the executive branch lead us. The thing that will stop us going down this road is, at this point, active resistance from local and state governments, private businesses and government contractors, and large multi-national corporations.

You need a lot of ICE, an absolutely staggering number of cops and jails, to deport twenty million people. It should be crystal clear by now that they will attempt to follow through with this promise, by whatever means necessary.

Re: Brad Lander detained by masked federal agents inside immigration court

#80

Post by nemomarx »

Juliate wrote: post #40

There's a thing I don't get, as a non-USAmerican. If someone unidentified, masked, showing no warrant, no legal justification of anything, kidnaps/attempts to kidnap someone, how are (organised) citizens not in their legitimate right to retaliate, according to what their local state allows them to? Similarly, why/how are the law enforcement units not taking side against those kidnapping? I mean, in my country, this w…

The cops personally agree with them, and so wouldn't intervene in any case.

I do think there's precedent that it's self defense to fire on an unidentified stranger who knocks on your door or tries to arrest you without showing ID, but you need to make it to court to press that defense and I can't say it's a great strategy for that reason

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