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FLUX.1 Kontext

bfl.ai

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Re: FLUX.1 Kontext

#72
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly love Replicate for always being up to date. It’s amazing that not only do we live in a time of rapid AI advancement, but that every new research grade model is immediately available via API and can be used in prod, at scale, no questions asked. Something to be said about distributors like Replicate etc that are adding an exponent to the impact of these model releases

I have no affiliation with either company but from using both a bunch as a customer: Replicate has a competitor at https://fal.ai/models and FAL's generation speed is consistently faster across every model I've tried. They have some sub-100 ms image gen models, too. Replicate has a much bigger model selection. But for every model that's on both, FAL is pretty much "Replicate but faster". I believe pricing is pretty s…

A16Z invested in both. It's wild. They've been absolutely flooding the GenAI market for images and videos with investments.

They'll have one of the victors, whoever it is. Maybe multiple.

Re: FLUX.1 Kontext

#73
post #57

Don’t understand the remove from face example. Without other pictures showing the persons face, it’s just using some stereotypical image, no?

They chosen Asian traits that Western beauty standards fetishize that in Asia wouldn't be taken serious at all. I notice American text2image models tend to generate less attractive and more darker skinned humans where as Chinese text2image generate attractive and more light skinned humans. I think this is another area where Chinese AI models shine.

> They chosen Asian traits that Western beauty standards fetishize that in Asia wouldn't be taken serious at all.

> where as Chinese text2image generate attractive and more light skinned humans.

Are you saying they have chosen Asian traits that Asian beauty standards fetishize that in the West wouldn't be taken seriously at all? ;) There is no ground truth here that would be more correct one way or the other.

Re: FLUX.1 Kontext

#74
post #57

Don’t understand the remove from face example. Without other pictures showing the persons face, it’s just using some stereotypical image, no?

They chosen Asian traits that Western beauty standards fetishize that in Asia wouldn't be taken serious at all. I notice American text2image models tend to generate less attractive and more darker skinned humans where as Chinese text2image generate attractive and more light skinned humans. I think this is another area where Chinese AI models shine.

Wow, that is some straight-up overt racism. You should be ashamed.

Re: FLUX.1 Kontext

#76
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems implementation is straightforward (very similar to everyone else, HiDream-E1, ICEdit, DreamO etc.), the magic is on data curation (which details are lightly shared).

I haven't been following image generation models closely, at a high level is this new Flux model still diffusion based, or have they moved to block autoregressive (possibly with diffusion for upscaling) similar to 4o?

[deleted]

Re: FLUX.1 Kontext

#77
post #48

Currently am testing this out (using the Replicate endpoint: https://replicate.com/black-forest-labs/flux-kontext-pro ). Replicate also hosts "apps" with examples using FLUX Kontext for some common use cases of image editing: https://replicate.com/flux-kontext-apps It's pretty good: quality of the generated images is similar to that of GPT-4o image generation if you were using it for simple image-to-image generations…

It seems more accurate than 4o image generation in terms of preserving original details. If I give it my 3D animal character and ask it for a minor change like changing the lighting, 4o will completely mangle the face of my character, it will change the body and other details slightly. This Flux model keeps the visible geometry almost perfectly the same even when asked to significantly change the pose or lighting

gpt-image-1 (aka "4o") is still the most useful general purpose image model, but damn does this come close.

I'm deep in this space and feel really good about FLUX.1 Kontext. It fills a much-needed gap, and it makes sure that OpenAI / Google aren't the runaway victors of images and video.

Prior to gpt-image-1, the biggest problems in images were:

  - prompt adherence
  - generation quality
  - instructiveness (eg. "put the sign above the second door")
  - consistency of styles, characters, settings, etc. 
  - deliberate and exact intentional posing of characters and set pieces
  - compositing different images or layers together
  - relighting
Fine tunes, LoRAs, and IPAdapters fixed a lot of this, but they were a real pain in the ass. ControlNets solved for pose, but it was still awkward and ugly. ComfyUI was an orchestrator of this layer of hacks that kind of got the job done, but it was hacky and unmaintainable glue. It always felt like a fly-by-night solution.

OpenAI's gpt-image-1 solved all of these things with a single multimodal model. You could throw out ComfyUI and all the other pre-AI garbage and work directly with the model itself. It was magic.

Unfortunately, gpt-image-1 is ridiculously slow, insanely expensive, highly censored (you can't use a lot of copyrighted characters or celebrities, and a lot of totally SFW prompts are blocked). It can't be fine tuned, so you're suck with the "ChatGPT style" and (as is called by the community) the "piss filter" (perpetually yellowish images).

And the biggest problem with gpt-image-1 is because it puts image and text tokens in the same space to manipulate, it can't retain the exact precise pixel-precise structure of reference images. Because of that, it cannot function as an inpainting/outpainting model whatsoever. You can't use it to edit existing images if the original image mattered.

Even with those flaws, gpt-image-1 was a million times better than Flux, ComfyUI, and all the other ball of wax hacks we've built up. Given the expense of training gpt-image-1, I was worried that nobody else would be able to afford to train the competition and that OpenAI would win the space forever. We'd be left with only hyperscalers of AI building these models. And it would suck if Google and OpenAI were the only providers of tools for artists.

Black Forest Labs just proved that wrong in a big way! While this model doesn't do everything as well as gpt-image-1, it's within the same order of magnitude. And it's ridiculously fast (10x faster) and cheap (10x cheaper).

Kontext isn't as instructive as gpt-image-1. You can't give it multiple pictures and ask it to copy characters from one image into the pose of another image. You can't have it follow complex compositing requests. But it's close, and that makes it immediately useful. It fills a much-needed gap in the space.

Black Forest Labs did the right thing by developing this instead of a video model. We need much more innovation in the image model space, and we need more gaps to be filled:

  - Fast
  - Truly multimodal like gpt-image-1
  - Instructive 
  - Posing built into the model. No ControlNet hacks. 
  - References built into the model. No IPAdapter, no required character/style LoRAs, etc. 
  - Ability to address objects, characters, mannequins, etc. for deletion / insertion. 
  - Ability to pull sources from across multiple images with or without "innovation" / change to their pixels.
  - Fine-tunable (so we can get higher quality and precision) 
 
Something like this that works in real time would literally change the game forever.

Please build it, Black Forest Labs.

All of those feature requests stated, Kontext is a great model. I'm going to be learning it over the next weeks.

Keep at it, BFL. Don't let OpenAI win. This model rocks.

Now let's hope Kling or Runway (or, better, someone who does open weights -- BFL!) develops a Veo 3 competitor.

I need my AI actors to "Meisner", and so far only Veo 3 comes close.

Re: FLUX.1 Kontext

#78
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly love Replicate for always being up to date. It’s amazing that not only do we live in a time of rapid AI advancement, but that every new research grade model is immediately available via API and can be used in prod, at scale, no questions asked. Something to be said about distributors like Replicate etc that are adding an exponent to the impact of these model releases

I have no affiliation with either company but from using both a bunch as a customer: Replicate has a competitor at https://fal.ai/models and FAL's generation speed is consistently faster across every model I've tried. They have some sub-100 ms image gen models, too. Replicate has a much bigger model selection. But for every model that's on both, FAL is pretty much "Replicate but faster". I believe pricing is pretty s…

Founder of Replicate here. We should be on par or faster for all the top models. e.g. we have the fastest FLUX[dev]: https://artificialanalysis.ai/text-to-image/model-family/flu...

If something's not as fast let me know and we can fix it. ben@replicate.com

Re: FLUX.1 Kontext

#79
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no affiliation with either company but from using both a bunch as a customer: Replicate has a competitor at https://fal.ai/models and FAL's generation speed is consistently faster across every model I've tried. They have some sub-100 ms image gen models, too. Replicate has a much bigger model selection. But for every model that's on both, FAL is pretty much "Replicate but faster". I believe pricing is pretty s…

Founder of Replicate here. We should be on par or faster for all the top models. e.g. we have the fastest FLUX[dev]: https://artificialanalysis.ai/text-to-image/model-family/flu... If something's not as fast let me know and we can fix it. ben@replicate.com

Hey Ben, thanks for participating in this thread. And certainly also for all you and your team have built.

Totally frank and possibly awkward question, you don't have to answer: how do you feel about a16z investing in everyone in this space?

They invested in you.

They're investing in your direct competitors (Fal, et al.)

They're picking your downmarket and upmarket (Krea, et al.)

They're picking consumer (Viggle, et al.), which could lift away the value.

They're picking the foundation models you consume. (Black Forest Labs, Hedra, et al.)

They're even picking the actual consumers themselves. (Promise, et al.)

They're doing this at Series A and beyond.

Do you think they'll try to encourage dog-fooding or consolidation?

The reason I ask is because I'm building adjacent or at a tangent to some of this, and I wonder if a16z is "all full up" or competitive within the portfolio. (If you can answer in private, my email is [my username] at gmail, and I'd be incredibly grateful to hear your thoughts.)

Beyond that, how are you feeling? This is a whirlwind of a sector to be in. There's a new model every week it seems.

Kudos on keeping up the pace! Keep at it!

Re: FLUX.1 Kontext

#80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

yes, so a stereotypical image. my point is best illustrated if you look at all of the photos of the woman.

Even if you provide another image (which you totally can btw) the model is still generalizing predictions enough that you can say it's just making a strong guess about what is concealed. I guess my main point is "this is where you draw the line? at a mostly accurate reconstruction of a partial of someone's face?" this was science fiction a few years ago. Training the model to accept two images (which it can, just not…

is it mostly accurate though? how would you know? suppose you had an asian woman whose face is entirely covered with snow.

sure you could tell AI to remove the snow and some face will be revealed, but who is to say it's accurate? that's why traditionally you have a reference input.

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