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Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

travellemming.com

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Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#71
The whole argument hinges on one claim: We were censored not because of content but because of who we are.

Strongest evidence in support: Drop in traffic coincided with google algorithm update.

Biggest lack of evidence: Nothing that shows it's because of who they are and not their content. Author defended their content by pointing out the cost and labor that goes into making their content.

Was the content really authentic and useful? This is hard to prove (and I suspect hard even for an algorithm to discern), and so I had a look:

- Each article did have that human feel to it with photos of the author in the locations they were talking about. Articles also included small personalized evaluations about topics.

So, yes, I did think it was authentic and useful. But how did it compare to the 1000s of other sites who can replicate this? Human writers aren't rare, and travel isn't a small interest to our species.

And that's the crux of it: Even if you're useful and authentic, search engines have to rank you among other sites that are useful and authentic.

You could be amazing and still end up on page 30 because you're not alone in being amazing on the internet.

I don't know what a fair algorithm looks like, and if a fair algorithm would make everyone equally happy.

For now, someone has the power to direct how the algorithm chooses. Who should have that power is a fair question, but I don't think anything will mitigate the problem of being ranked low even with quality content. It's a ranking against the rest of the internet, not just an evaluation of quality.

At the moment, if two sites are somewhat equally useful, being profitable to Google probably gets you a bump.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#72
post #5

> Google plans to use AI to consume and replace the open web. They've been boiling the frog here for a long time. The "open web" is a euphemism for the Google Chrome monoculture walled-garden-in-waiting. Google exert so much influence there that building on the web is in practice barely different than building on say iOS. You can do what you want if you don't want to make money, but if you do then you will have to pl…

the funniest part here is that if G+ is part of the reason, they still don't understand why people didn't want to use it, making any decisions which follow wrong &/or misguided. while I'm not terribly in favor of breaking up companies, there is far too much incentive for Google, given its ad business (which is really what the company now is), to have any voice in the future of the Web. Chrome must be spun off, & firewalls put in place between the ad side & the search side of things (unless, of course, they really are just a govt subsidiary & this has been the plan all along, but there would have to be tangible proof of that).

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That would be believable if copyright was enforced appropriately on existing AI training data. The big problem with this is it means anything really interesting will no longer be published in the open.

As a decade long blogger I am actually thinking about writing more to paper magazines now - a 1000 paper magazine readers are more than 100 from rare Google traffic (:

I'm going there: I think the same is becoming true here.

A couple of days ago one of the web games in my profile frontpaged here, and while it generated a lot of traffic it was nothing like previous times. I have had much more trouble with large private mailing lists linking to things, which also leads to a more condensed rush when everyone looks at once.

Organic traffic generally appears dead, Google or not.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>My hunch is Google never psychologically recovered from Facebook absolutely wiping out G+, and they have been on a mission to ensure nothing like that ever happens again. That's an orthogonal issue to me. IMHO, modern Google never really cared about social media platforms because it never really understood them. Otherwise it would have bought Facebook, Instagram, WhatsApp, Snapchat, Tiktok, Twitter, early on before…

> That's an orthogonal issue to me. IMHO, modern Google never really cared about social media platforms because it never really understood them. Caring (or at least wanting in) and not understanding are perfectly compatible. I know for a fact that a number of old googlers are still frustrated over Google Video got stomped, and Google having to buy Youtube in the end. > Otherwise it would have bought Facebook, Instagr…

>That only works if: 1. they see it coming

Zuckerberg saw them coming though. That's why he owns a social media empire now, and wants to either own or destroy Tiktok as well. Musk saw it coming with Twatter, hell, even Bezos saw it coming, that why Amazon bought Twitch.

Google leadership just doesn't understand social media, otherwise they would have bought a rising platform instead of building one from scratch that flopped with zero user base. Social media platforms are all about the existing user base, not about the tech behind it. That's why G+ failed despite being technically superior in some aspects.

>I know for a fact that a number of old googlers are still frustrated over Google Video got stomped, and Google having to buy Youtube in the end

It's irrelevant what old googlers think. Google has a responsibility to their shareholders to make line go up, not make some of their programmers feel good by keeping them working on dying platforms with no user base wile their competitors steam ahead. Buying youtube was the right business decision because it was the more popular platform, instead of trying to make Google Video happen, as it would have had the same faith as G+, and those old googlers would have probably been laid off instead of being moved to work on Youtube. Programmers don't always make good business decisions.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#76

The article treats as axiom that organic traffic is a right. It's not. Most people don't want to read an article on travel advice when AI gives us much better and specific advice, with references, when we want it.

Stealing other people's output and then cutting them off from discovery isn't a right either. Since politicians do not protect us from these criminals, we are fortunate that no one except for CEOs under the influence of cocaine wants "AI".

You (and others) keep using "stealing" and "robbing".

I get emotions are high because of the impact of AI, but in no meaningful/legal sense is this true. Is there space for nuanced/critical discussion?

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#77

I can't get past the sloppy and inflammatory use of English here. This is not 'censorship'. It probably isn't banning, nor is it 'shadowbanning'. Google tunes its algorithms and lets the chips fall. Some win, some lose. While I understand how Google's dominance in search can have outsized effects on Internet commerce, the writer has near-zero credibility with me based on their writing. Honest people making honest sta…

> Google tunes its algorithms and lets the chips fall

This is even more sloppy and could be easily applied to any real censorship, where some (censored) lose and some (not censored) win

If you're "tuning" your algorithm with the goal of blocking all small independent websites, then yeah, you're doing the shadow (if you don't tell the sites about it) banning. By ignoring the intent of the policy and replacing it with a truism you don't really have a terminology counter argument

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#78
I do sympathize with OP's situation, but there's a dissonance also.

As a site owner they seemed to have been happy to play the SEO game under the old rules, winning a little bit, but unhappy to play the SEO game under the new rules, losing a little bit. Depressingly, it's Google's ball, so it Google's rules.

At the end of the post, OP's suggests some remedies for web users, but they seem either impractical or ineffective. The recommendations for the commission also tacitly assume that Google is either a) a monopoly, to be regulated as such, or b) a utility, to be regulated as such. Maybe a) will be proven, but b) seems like a real stretch goal. They're a private enterprise and without congressional action or administrative action to change the laws and regulations, they have wide latitude in how they behave for commercial reasons. I don't believe they can be forced to do anything they don't want to do without statutory or regulatory action.

I do sympathize, but what's lost for a consumer?

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#79

Welcome to the era of massively mediocre online content. It started with mediocre SEO content that just amalgamated 5 other page 1 results until Google results became basically inbred content that meant nothing to anyone. Now we have LLMs which amalgamate that type of content and spit out a personalized, but still mediocre response. On the visual side, TikTok and Reels are doing their part to make everyone run to the…

You should read 'Amusing Ourselves to Death' by Neal Postman. It's painful how apt it is for current times.

For what it's worth, I've started to reintroduce friction in my life where it makes sense. My phone defaults to a "dumbphone" profile that only has messaging, music, maps, etc. and specifically no browser or YouTube.

I only turn on my smart lights with wall buttons and use the smart function purely to tune the white point.

I try to pay by physical card instead of Apple / Google Wallet. Although I do store membership cards that I use once in a blue moon there.

eReader is fine IMO. Weekend newspaper subscription is really nice but can feel expensive if you have limited income.

Another good one is familiarizing yourself in the neighborhood. Get a regular coffee spot or pub or lunch place.

These are only examples of course. I basically feel like hitting the late 1990s - early 2000s 'level' of ease and socialization in your life is the optimal point.

Your brain will fight it every step of the way, but one can tear oneself out of their bubble of surplus comfort. Good luck.

Re: Google is using AI to censor independent websites like mine

#80

My personal opinion. Google sees the writing on the wall with the rise of perplexity. People want trustable summaries of long winding content to make decisions. It’s business of sending people to the relevant content and serving ads has to change to compete. It is simply redefining how it serves up information. The fact that small information servers like us get wiped out is the unfortunate consequence. I’m not sayin…

Basically if you serve information or content. AI or even just some smart coding google can do that too. If you do something with that information Google has not been doing so good at that.

Microsoft in the early 2000s did that very well. They would let you have the data but would gobble up any company that could transform data and make it their own.

But data without applications is useless. Applications without data is also useless.

The applications let us make decisions with our data. Now can AI replace that? Probably in many cases. If it ican then google can just spit out the answer you want.

However, by doing that google may be eating its own lunch. As that ad empire depends on thousands of websites serving up their ad's. If those sites do not exist then what are the ads worth? It was this serving of information/content that drew everyone in. With that scrape of getting ad revenue. Google now can scrape your content and show it above the fold. What reason do you have to make a content farm? But then where does google get the data? They are killing the chicken and the egg at the same time.

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